EP16: We MUST Protect Our Energy! The How & The Why!
Advanced Serenity, spiral meditation, our butts, being SO healthy, the language of the nervous system, the perks of being assertive vs. Be Aggressive! B-E-AGGRESSIVE!! Energy field infringement, body slams, and how to avoid language “qualifiers”. We talk all this plus our connection to our energy fields and to our power!
Be sure to tune in!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
- The best numberless scale available is the: Shapa Scale! Use the code LESSALONE50 for $50 OFF your Shapa Scale PLUS get FREE shipping!
- Less Alone Podcast: (Home episode) This Feels Like Home
- Broomfield, Colorado Therapist: The Kali Institute Free Online Workshop
- Spiral meditation video
- Anodea Judith
- Book: Eastern Medicine, Western Mind: Psychology and Chakras
- Get out of debt online support group
- Emilie Aries podcast: Bossed Up
- Denver women’s education and networking group: Lady Killas
- Article – Aggressive vs. Assertive Communication: The Secret Behind Effective Leaders
- Refinery 29 Article by Kimberly Truong – We Didn’t Get Out of Men’s Way for a Week — This is How Many Injuries We Sustained (Manslamming Street Experience)
- Goop Article – How Women Undermine Themselves with Words
- Article – The No BS Guide to Protecting Your Emotional Space
- Anna’s Ways to Say No Guide
- 6-Step Roadmap To Instant Connection
P.S. Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!
[0:00:00.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The contents of this show are for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on the show does not create a client-therapist relationship and should not be taken as professional advice. Before making any decisions regarding your healthcare, ask your personal physician, or mental healthcare professional, or call 911 for any emergencies.
AMY MOORE: Today our sponsor is Shapa, a numberless scale and personalized plan that will completely change the way you think about your overall health and hitting your goals. Shapa is perfect for people who are making an effort towards a healthier lifestyle but do not want to feel confused or judged by a number.Instead, when you step on your Shapa you will see a color based on your weight trend over the past 10 days. *so if you go out for tacos the night before, Shapa won’t judge!*
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[0:00:21.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.
[0:00:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.
[0:00:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.
[0:00:36.9] AMY MOORE: Hi.
[0:00:38.0] ERIN LINEHAN: My God.
[0:00:41.1] AMY MOORE: Okay. Erin just kicked off the welcome. Welcome back, everybody.
[0:00:46.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Hello.
[0:00:47.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It that what I look like when – Energy. Energy.
[0:00:52.0] AMY MOORE: Speaking of energy, we have got a great podcast today.
[0:00:55.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn, y’all.
[0:00:57.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s down captain.
[0:00:58.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn.
[0:00:58.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Segue.
[0:01:00.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn.
[0:01:02.3] AMY MOORE: Thank you.
[0:01:02.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn. So good.
[0:01:06.0] AMY MOORE: Okay. We have got a great show today.
[0:01:10.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a big one.
[0:01:10.9] AMY MOORE: We’re super excited. Okay. Here we go again.
[0:01:13.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a big one.
[0:01:14.4] AMY MOORE: Last episode, we were able to talk with Sarah of The Kidconscious Project and super stoked about everything. She’s doing –
[0:01:22.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I was really inspired.
[0:01:23.9] AMY MOORE: It was so inspiring.
[0:01:25.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s amazing and made me wish that I had that stuff when I was a kid.
[0:01:28.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, hell yeah.
[0:01:28.8] ERIN LINEHAN: It was amazing.
[0:01:29.4] AMY MOORE: Totally. I think it was so cool how originally this leadership program, but then really it is now becoming a consciousness program, like the evolution of it. Just what a gift for kids and parents. That is really cool and step-parents and everybody.
[0:01:50.4] ERIN LINEHAN: For the world. For kids to be –
[0:01:52.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Everyone.
[0:01:52.7] AMY MOORE: Just everyone.
[0:01:53.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Just a huge out there.
[0:01:55.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Great stuff. What we really wanted to talk about today, or narrow in on was protecting our energy fields, protecting our energy fields.
[0:02:08.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Well, we got so much from her interview.
[0:02:10.5] AMY MOORE: So much.
[0:02:11.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: One of the things that really stood out is like, wow. That’s huge.
[0:02:14.8] AMY MOORE: Well, and then how that translates the boundaries, which is such a common topic. We found some great information on the subject and we’ll get into it, we’re excited. Before we do that, quick review, I got to say this is from Perky Doodle.
[0:02:31.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s so great.
[0:02:32.9] AMY MOORE: Perky Doodle, I don’t know about you if you have a doodle, but I am a proud owner of a standard poodle puppy.
[0:02:42.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Dory who was on our home episode of season one. You can hear her bark in that episode.
[0:02:48.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Maybe we can get a picture.
[0:02:49.1] AMY MOORE: Only once though.
[0:02:50.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Maybe we can get a picture.
[0:02:50.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, it’s on the website.
[0:02:52.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It is. Yeah. With the eyes.
[0:02:54.9] AMY MOORE: Updated one.
[0:02:56.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She’s super sweet.
[0:02:56.4] ERIN LINEHAN: This dog has these eyes that are the most telling and soulful little things.
[0:03:01.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. You always think she’s looking into your soul, right?
[0:03:04.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I do. Absolutely. Yeah. That she’s looking into my soul. She is a – they’re powerful. I think we should put that in an Instagram.
[0:03:11.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. All right, we can make that happen.
[0:03:14.4] AMY MOORE: Dory’s coming.
[0:03:17.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know a person.
[0:03:17.3] ERIN LINEHAN: You can pull some strings?
[0:03:19.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I’ll talk to the people in charge. Yeah.
[0:03:22.4] AMY MOORE: Thanks, Anna. Anyway –
[0:03:24.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I am that person in charge. I’ve got that. I’ve got the handle for you.
[0:03:30.1] AMY MOORE: Thank you Perky Doodle. This is what you said to us. “Worthwhile and fun.” Five stars. “This podcast strikes a great balance of providing meaningful content, while remaining upbeat and easy to listen to. I’ve already tried some of their suggestions and noticed results with friends.”
[0:03:52.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So awesome.
[0:03:53.7] AMY MOORE: How cool is that?
[0:03:54.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s awesome.
[0:03:55.5] AMY MOORE: Yes. Thank you for telling us that, because we love to hear what’s working with our community.
[0:04:01.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Or how are people are taking in and retaining and what they think about the podcast and things. It’s super interesting, because everyone has a different perspective on things. That’s why they’re great, I think.
[0:04:11.6] AMY MOORE: I do have to say I got some text messages this week from my mom and my sister. Thanks mom and Ann. They were like, “I love this. I’m taking notes.” I was like, “Yes!”
[0:04:25.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That is so good.
[0:04:26.0] AMY MOORE: That is great.
[0:04:27.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I get texts like that too and I’m just like, “Oh, yeah.”
[0:04:29.5] AMY MOORE: I know. It’s so awesome. Anyway, hopefully, same will come from this episode.
[0:04:38.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Fingers crossed.
[0:04:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Maybe. All right.
[0:04:44.0] AMY MOORE: Hey, Anna.
[0:04:44.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah?
[0:04:45.2] AMY MOORE: You know Erin’s a pretty badass therapist, right?
[0:04:47.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I totally know. I just take notes when she’s talking.
[0:04:51.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Me too. Some of our audience does as well.
[0:04:54.6] AMY MOORE: Did you know that there’s also a place that you can get information directly from her?
[0:05:01.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: On our website, right?
[0:05:02.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Didn’t you do it?
[0:05:04.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.
[0:05:04.7] AMY MOORE: Tell us about it.
[0:05:05.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. There’s all these free workshops that they’re offering. At the KaliInstitute.com, you can sign up for those. K-A-L-I is how you spell Kali and then Institute. thekaliinstitute.com.
[0:05:18.1] AMY MOORE: Get it done. Protecting our own energy fields.
[0:05:22.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, so boundaries.
[0:05:23.6] AMY MOORE: And boundaries.
[0:05:24.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m curious about when she’s – because I freaked out when she said that, because I was so excited that she’s teaching kids that. For the two of you, why did that resonate with both of you?
[0:05:32.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Amy, you take it away.
[0:05:33.3] AMY MOORE: Great. Thanks, Anna.
[0:05:35.2] ERIN LINEHAN: What? Great.
[0:05:37.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: While I think about this.
[0:05:38.7] AMY MOORE: Okay, so I think about my own energy field being my own life force in a way and where people really have an impact on that life force, or on my own energy field and can really make it positive or negative, like the toxicity that some people bring into that field and then how I see that affecting my life.
I see people who are really positive, supportive, loving, genuine to me and coming into my field and how positively that affects my own day-to-day. I feel lately with going through some hardship, it’s become so obvious to me how I do have control over protecting that field. It’s been a really powerful thing for me to think about what I can control and what I can’t and how I can protect my energy field, which will then create the life force or the – yeah, I guess life force that I want.
[0:06:50.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Do you have specific exercises that you do? Or what do you do for that?
[0:06:53.1] AMY MOORE: Well, interestingly enough, my therapist gave me this cool tool about five – it’s a circle on a piece of paper and it has a bunch of different categories and then numbers 1 through 10, going out from the center. It’s a self-care tool.
We talk a lot about what’s in my control and what’s not. She has me draw a small circle and then a big circle. It’s brain dumps. What do I have control over in the center circle? For example, I have control over if I make food, if I buy food, what food I can eat? If I take a shower, if I don’t take a shower. If I talk to someone, if I don’t talk to someone, if I can e-mail –
[0:07:43.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Things that have to do with you.
[0:07:45.1] AMY MOORE: Yes. Then a while ago when I was working with her it was like, I had control to look and find my own house, but I didn’t have control over so much other stuff. All that other stuff went into the bigger circle. She’s really helped with identifying some of that. I think for me, it’s just an exercise. It helps me protect the energy field, because I’m seeing like, “Holy crap. I can control that, and so I can allow that into my energy field.”
Then people, or my contact with people I guess, I have control over that. Am I going to allow them into my energy field? No. If they’re toxic, right? We talk a lot about that too with just thinking about who fills my cup? Who do I want in that energy field?
[0:08:40.6] ERIN LINEHAN: You better have us at the top of the list.
[0:08:42.2] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yes.
[0:08:43.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know, I’m thinking, I’m thinking, “Where are we on that listing?”
[0:08:46.9] AMY MOORE: Absolutely.
[0:08:47.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We better be on the damn list.
[0:08:48.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Are you kidding me?
[0:08:49.2] ERIN LINEHAN: We spend all of a sudden together.
[0:08:51.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think we would’ve been booted by now.
[0:08:53.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, my God. No. You guys fill my cup more than you would ever know. Thank you. Yeah, I don’t – does that answer your question?
[0:08:59.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Absolutely. Yeah.
[0:09:01.1] AMY MOORE: Anna. Anna, what about you Anna?
[0:09:02.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can you repeat the question?
[0:09:05.1] ERIN LINEHAN: The question was that we all were really stoked when Sarah was talking about she tried to get out of it, but didn’t forget.
[0:09:12.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re so annoyed with me right now.
[0:09:15.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Sarah was talking about how they did a workshop with little kids that taught them how to protect their own energy field. All of us were super stoked and that’s the thing we picked from the episode. For you, how do you do that for you?
[0:09:28.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it really resonated with me, because it’s a concept, having boundaries and protecting my energy field, that’s something that I only came in to feeling empowered about when I became an adult and started the self-journey, self-health, self-healing journey of figuring out who I am and all of that. It wasn’t something that was even allowed, or on my radar when I was a kid. I think that’s why it stood out to me in particular as wow, this is something that we can teach kids, that she’s teaching kids, or having others teach kids as something that is super vital.
I really feel so much of the angst or problems that come up in adult friendships and relationships is partly because of boundaries and lack of boundaries. Talking about boundaries and protecting our energy fields and what that looks like is something that I just – it really stood out, because it’s something that I’ve had to work on and acknowledge and cut out certain people, or limit my contact with them, in an effort to protect my space and my sanity. That’s why it stood out to me.
[0:10:42.7] AMY MOORE: I love how you just brought up kids. I mean, one of the big things that I was like, “Oh, my gosh,” when Sarah was in studio is thinking about what a gift a child, or whatever, a kid would have thinking about this stuff so early on.
[0:11:03.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, because kids are so sensitive. All of us. Everybody is born into the world being intuitive and sensitive and then at some point that’s knocked out of kids. I don’t want to say beat out of kids, because that’s not great, but stifled, or smushed, or whatever.
It’s so important for kids to recognize that they have – they are energetic beings, because I think it’s super interesting because I warm with energy stuff that we talk about electric energy, we talk about solar energy, we talk about mechanical energy, whatever the different kinds of energies. When you talk about human energy, or the energy field around us, then people get all freaked out and weird about it and it’s like, well, if we talk about all this type of energy, but then we start talking about energy between people, or energy within us.
[0:11:47.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[0:11:48.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That’s too weird and I’m not going there. To honor that that it’s a thing and to teach the kids about that is such a huge – is such a gift for sure.
[0:12:00.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s super empowering.
[0:12:02.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Super empowering.
[0:12:03.5] AMY MOORE: It would also be interesting if that just became the norm. Imagine –
[0:12:08.1] ERIN LINEHAN: It is. I think it is moving that direction, to be honest.
[0:12:10.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then think about that, maybe it wouldn’t be empowering. Imagine if you were a kid just going through life and that was just part of your education as a child. Yup, there’s energy everywhere. I have an ability to protect mine. I have the tools to do that.
[0:12:28.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That would be amazing.
[0:12:30.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Like to understand how your energy influences other people, that is a – would be a huge deal. I think for me, I got so excited was because I’m super sensitive to energy. I didn’t know that as a kid, because it was shut down for a long time. Then I started to develop this thing, where I was very in-tune of other people’s energy. If I would have been taught that earlier on, how much more ease there would have been in my life, because I was so overwhelmed by things.
[0:12:55.9] AMY MOORE: Just to have the awareness of it.
[0:12:57.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Just to have the awareness of it. I didn’t know that it was going on. For my first therapist that I went to before we could even start EMDR stuff, she was like, “We need to get a hold.” I was telling her my experience in the world, she was like, “Oh, you’re super intuitive. We can’t even do EMDR stuff, until we get ahold of your intuition and you understand what’s happening with it,” because I had no idea that it was a thing. I didn’t even think I knew what intuition was, right? Then I was like, “Oh, I have a lot of this.”
When she was talking about that I was like, “Thank goodness, because kids are so intuitive and I think everyone were just born that way. It is fantastic.” For me, I’ve been practicing where my –with my energetic boundaries, because I feel I am in a helping profession and I have a lot of close people in my life and a lot of the close people my life are going through crises at the moment.
I would love to be supportive, but how do I be supportive and then then also have stuff left over for myself? Then how do I do that? I’ve been doing this thing called the spiral meditation. It’s interesting. You open up your energy field through your different chakras and then you –
[0:14:05.8] AMY MOORE: How do you open up? How do you do that? Can you tell us?
[0:14:08.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is advanced. This is advanced serenity.
[0:14:13.0] ERIN LINEHAN: How do I do this is –
[0:14:15.4] AMY MOORE: No. Advanced boundary.
[0:14:17.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Advanced boundaries.
[0:14:18.3] AMY MOORE: Advance energy field protection. Okay, let’s hear it.
[0:14:22.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. You put your hand on your heart, right? Then so you’re just in this energy. You’re just imagining green is often associated with the heart chakra, right? Then you go to the left –
[0:14:33.6] AMY MOORE: That’s my accent color.
[0:14:34.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Then you go to the left down to your solar plexus, right?
[0:14:38.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Over the bridge down to the ribs.
[0:14:41.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, I know. Here and then you hold yourself, so then you open it. Then you go to different spots and you spiral outward, so then your energy field is huge. What I have noticed –
[0:14:50.2] AMY MOORE: Wait. You’re always going to the left?
[0:14:53.2] ERIN LINEHAN: When you’re opening.
[0:14:54.4] AMY MOORE: When you’re opening.
[0:14:55.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. If you’ve come here and then you know, because you’re spiraling, so you’re coming back to the right, so you’re going up to your high heart. This is going to be too hard for them to understand, I think.
[0:15:04.0] AMY MOORE: Okay, I want you all to know we are sitting. Our feet are on the ground. We’re sitting in our chairs. We all have our hands on our higher heart.
[0:15:11.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, high heart. Yeah.
[0:15:13.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Higher heart.
[0:15:17.3] AMY MOORE: Maybe you could do a little video for folks?
[0:15:19.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[0:15:19.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Sure.
[0:15:20.3] AMY MOORE: That would be awesome.
[0:15:22.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We got a lot of stuff to post.
[0:15:24.1] ERIN LINEHAN: A lot of things. The point being is that I didn’t realize that my energy field, because so when I opened it up before I brought it back to normal size, I felt really disoriented and dissociated. I was like, “Oh, this is what I feel when I am giving away my energy,” which is essentially my own power. I’m giving it to people, like people can take it. Instead of having my own energy and giving a piece of it, so that someone can light their own energy. That makes sense?
[0:15:50.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Cool.
[0:15:51.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Feeling in my body like, “Oh, this is what this feels like.” I need to learn things viscerally, and so that helped me. Then when I closed back up my energy, I feel super energized –
[0:15:59.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You go in the opposite way.
[0:16:00.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Opposite direction and you reverse the spiral. Then I feel like, “Oh, I’m in my own power and this is what it –” I’m a better human being, because I have –
[0:16:12.1] AMY MOORE: Your energy is protected.
[0:16:12.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. My energy is protected, but I can share and it’s my choice whether I’m sharing it or not, because then I understand what’s happening between me and the world. Because what I’ve learned, because I studied the energy medicine stuff. There’s this woman called Anodea Judith. She has this book – she has several books on chakra stuff, but she studied thing for over 40 years. She’s amazing.
She was talking about in the book Eastern Body, Western Mind, so she talked about your first chakra, which is – there’s seven energy centers in your body, and so the root chakra is at the bottom, basically your tailbone. The root chakra is safety, security, money issues, just general – Amy’s dancing. Just general stability. Its element is earth, so it’s solidness and earth.
What I have realized over time is that – and then your second chakra is your sacral chakra and that’s all feelings and flow, right? If your earth is not solid, so if my earth is not solid and I feel like I don’t feel grounded, I don’t feel centered, I feel shaky or anxious, then my energetic boundaries are in other people’s stuff, because I’m checking to see – does it make sense? I’m checking to see like, “Hey, what mood is Anna in right now? What mood is Amy in right now?” Instead of staying in my own energy field, right? Does this make sense? Staying –
[0:17:29.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Just my mind is being blown right now.
[0:17:31.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Staying in my own energy field, so then I can still see where, what space you’re in without having to be in your shit. Does that make sense?
[0:17:37.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah.
[0:17:38.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Does that make sense?
[0:17:38.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so healthy.
[0:17:40.7] AMY MOORE: I know.
[0:17:42.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So healthy, Erin.
[0:17:42.9] AMY MOORE: I’m just thinking about my butt. I need to do so much work in my tailbone. I mean, and I know exactly what you’re –
[0:17:54.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m just thinking about my butt.
[0:17:55.4] AMY MOORE: Saying, where it’s I need to – when you do that scan of a crowd and it’s like –
[0:18:01.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Is this person safe? Is this person safe? Is this person safe?
[0:18:03.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. What’s going on? What’s going on? You’re like, “You go to open up that e-mail.”
[0:18:07.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Or you’re hyper vigilant about your whole environment. If you’re in solid in yourself, then you don’t necessarily – we’re not as triggered by the world around us.
[0:18:17.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Do you have any techniques for really being solid in those bottom chakras?
[0:18:25.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I think, so when we’ve talked in previous podcasts maybe last season about breathing all the way into your root. It’s hard to get air all the way down there, but if you can breathe all the way into your root, then that is – so all the way into your hips, I guess I should say, then that’s where – then your teaching, your breath is the information – through breathing, that’s how you teach your nervous system. That’s the language of the nervous, right? You’re breathing all the way into your hips and then that is teaching your system like, “Okay, I’m safe, because I have breath in my hips, right? And in my first chakra.”
You can breathe, you can run, you can go for a walk, you can – a lot of times if you stand up and push, do a calf stretch into the wall, if you put your hands on the wall and then put your feet behind you like you’re stretching your calf and try to push yourself into that other room –
[0:19:12.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Why are these things in particular good for the root chakra?
[0:19:16.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Because it creates a sense of grounding and a connection to the earth.
[0:19:20.1] AMY MOORE: Because your breathing gets –
[0:19:22.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Because your breathing is part of that, but as different things that you can do. It’s just a connection. Yeah, go ahead.
[0:19:29.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can we back up a little bit? I’m curious, what –
[0:19:33.0] AMY MOORE: So fascinating.
[0:19:34.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. Super, super fascinating. What would bad boundaries look like? What do they look like? For the listener, can we talk about what bad boundaries would look like and what good boundaries look like?
[0:19:46.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s like a – this little feeling in your body. If you are feeling drained –
[0:19:51.1] AMY MOORE: Or yucky.
[0:19:52.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Or yucky, or you just don’t feel vibrant, or energetic, or full of life, or you feel pissy, or cause anger, right? We get angry, because our boundaries were crossed. It’s just like using ourselves as the litmus test, or the barometer for what is happening. I take self-awareness to be like, “Okay, what is happening with me?” Like, “Oh, all of a sudden, I feel yucky after being in Target around Christmas.” Well, yeah. That makes sense, right? Or because –
[0:20:24.2] AMY MOORE: Why would you say that makes sense? Say a little bit more.
[0:20:25.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Because people are pissy in Target at Christmas, and so you feel overwhelmed, like there’s frantic energy somewhere. Well then, that. Or that if you’ve been to Times Square in New York City feels very different than if you’re in the woods, right? That thing and using ourselves as the barometer, because if we’re in tune enough, then we know what’s going on in our environment.
[0:20:46.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I guess what I’m thinking is when I encounter people either in my life or virtually, I notice that a lot of times the issues people have with one another stems typically from bad boundaries, almost like a codependency. This codependency idea is something that I’ve learned about as I have become an adult. What that means to me is this idea of being overly involved in other people’s situation and/or the outcome. That’s to me –
[0:21:18.3] AMY MOORE: Or looking to someone else to fill you up or give you approval.
[0:21:23.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Yeah, just overly involved. To me, that’s an indication of boundaries issue. I guess, what I’m thinking is for people where this is a new concept. What would be some things that people might do, or experience that would be an indication of bad boundaries? Maybe I can say what I’m thinking.
[0:21:43.8] AMY MOORE: I think you should.
[0:21:45.9] ERIN LINEHAN: You got the answer and you have, Anna.
[0:21:48.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin, you’re not saying what I’m thinking.
[0:21:50.3] ERIN LINEHAN: This is an indication of bad boundaries, because she’s expecting me to read her mind.
[0:21:58.4] AMY MOORE: Hands-on learning here.
[0:21:59.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Hands-on learning. Hands on learning.
[0:22:00.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Touche. See, and I was like, “Okay, she’s not picking up what I’m putting down.”
[0:22:04.8] AMY MOORE: Okay. Tell us.
[0:22:05.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. What I noticed with bad boundaries is over-helping, being overly involved and overly involved in the outcome and letting people’s possibly negative feelings about a situation, or about me affect me too much. For example –
[0:22:27.5] AMY MOORE: Then that would be infringing on your energy field.
[0:22:31.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Oh, I think so for sure.
[0:22:33.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s all emotional energy field, it’s all interwoven.
[0:22:37.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I noticed a lot of times, people will help, especially – okay, I guess I’m thinking of the spendingfasters.group.com that I run on Facebook. A lot of times, people get into pickles, because they help financially other people when they don’t have the means to take care of themselves first.
That ends up causing tons of issues. Usually, it’s either a child helping a parent financially, or the opposite where an adult parent is helping an adult child financially. Then they get into issues where the person can’t pay them back and then they’re mad. That’s an indication to me of possibly a bad boundary.
[0:23:21.0] ERIN LINEHAN: There’s also an indication that it’s a deeper level of work than just being able to set a boundary, because if you can’t set a boundary and it’s harmful to you, so if you’re giving and you’re not giving freely, or you’re expecting something in return and that’s not what the agreement is, then I think if someone’s getting resentful because they knowingly knew they – sounds like gave the person money, which the likelihood of getting it back was not happening and then they get pissed about that, then that’s like, “What’s happening inside of you that you’re engaging in this behavior?” I think it’s a deeper issue than just setting boundaries.
[0:23:53.9] AMY MOORE: I think too, there’s boundaries of helping too much, or someone else. You know that feeling of getting unsolicited advice?
[0:24:03.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Favorite.
[0:24:06.1] AMY MOORE: It just irks me. To me, that’s a violation of my boundary. I have the choice then to either say, “I don’t want advice right now,” and then I feel I’m putting a boundary up, because I’m telling that person no. I feel many times, it’s taken me a long time and I still have a lot of learning to do and work to do.
I think if I chose not to say anything and I just kept letting that person continue to give me unsolicited advice, then I would not be setting a good boundary. That would be on me. That would be my part in it. I feel like, I don’t know. I just think it’s really – there’s also just physical boundary when people are real close talkers and you feel that.
[0:24:56.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hi, Amy. Hi.
[0:24:59.9] AMY MOORE: You feel that. Then it’s like, I think just that for a visual of a boundary or protecting your energy field. If you can then just physically take a step back from that person –
[0:25:11.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Then the person steps in your space.
[0:25:13.0] AMY MOORE: Right. Then there’s tactics. You can cross your arms and put up a –that’s also a boundary. Interestingly enough, I was doing a little research for the show and I went to the speaker recently. It was Emilie Aries.
[0:25:32.2] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s an amazing speaker.
[0:25:33.6] AMY MOORE: Amazing speaker. Such a great entertainer. She just had – everybody’s so engaged.
[0:25:40.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She has a podcast.
[0:25:41.8] AMY MOORE: Bossed Up. Okay, yeah. Bossed Up. Yeah. Huge shout out. Thank you, Emilie for everything you’re doing. Real brief, so she helps people. She helps women, I think specifically. She helps women ask for what they want in their career. She helps women advance in their career essentially. That’s what I got from it so far, but she’s got a lot of really great tips and things too. Anyway, so she put on a – she was with the group Lady Killers, Lady Killers in Denver. Are you familiar with them?
[0:26:15.1] ERIN LINEHAN: No.
[0:26:16.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I wasn’t either, but we got to get –
[0:26:18.1] ERIN LINEHAN: What do they do?
[0:26:19.7] AMY MOORE: They have speakers once a month for women, like women leaders and women changing things. It’s awesome.
[0:26:27.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sounds awesome.
[0:26:27.8] AMY MOORE: Anyway, so Emilie was there and her whole topic was assertive communication.
[0:26:34.2] ERIN LINEHAN: So good.
[0:26:35.1] AMY MOORE: So good. I learned so much about the difference between assertiveness and aggressiveness. If I were to sum it up, it would be something like assertiveness is when you say what you want, but you also allow for other people’s opinions, or other people’s contributions to a conversation. Whereas, aggressiveness is when you say what you want, and you steamroll. You do not let other voices, or other people to be heard. It’s like, my way or the highway and here’s what I want. Often, women specifically are their assertiveness gets labeled as aggressiveness.
[0:27:19.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, it does.
[0:27:20.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or bitchiness.
[0:27:22.5] AMY MOORE: Totally. Emilie’s whole suggestion was just ask yourself like, “Maybe that woman is just being assertive.” That’s great, as long as there is room for other people to express their opinion, or their ideas.
[0:27:37.2] ERIN LINEHAN: You stand in your power, I’ll stand in my power and you stand in your power. Yeah. Yes. That’s what that is.
[0:27:42.9] AMY MOORE: It was so great. It was really great.
[0:27:45.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what I’ve noticed in myself in particular when this idea of hey, I can actually use my voice and be assertive and ask for what I want and stand in my truth, this whole idea from being a kid who was shy and didn’t feel I had a voice. I really had to study how to be assertive. I noticed when I first started doing this and I noticed it in others sometimes too, when they first start exploring this concept of having an assertive voice and stance in the world is that sometimes it goes into the aggressive range, because of testing it out and feeling it out.
I think that that’s a necessary part in a way as you navigate it. I had to go back and fix a couple things, I was a little too assertive/aggressive on and I had to fix my part of that situation. I mean, I think if you are new to this idea of being assertive, there might be some messy parts involved in that as you discover your voice and figure out boundaries –
[0:28:51.1] AMY MOORE: Absolutely.
[0:28:51.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: – and things like that. It’s like, okay, let’s roll it back here just a little bit.
[0:28:55.2] ERIN LINEHAN: You know what you could do. Rupture and repair. Boom.
[0:28:59.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, geez.
[0:28:59.9] AMY MOORE: Bringing it back. Bringing it back. There was another tip that I – a big takeaway.
[0:29:04.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Wait. Were you done?
[0:29:05.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.
[0:29:06.8] AMY MOORE: There is another takeaway from the presentation. One thing that will help maybe smooth out some of those trials –
[0:29:14.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The learning curve.
[0:29:15.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, the learning curve is to say your intent before content.
[0:29:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Give an example.
[0:29:21.2] AMY MOORE: For example –
[0:29:22.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They do this personally, or with the person?
[0:29:24.6] AMY MOORE: This is another way to work on your assertive communication. Say I was in a meeting with my boss and I was asking for a raise. I needed to ask for what I wanted, but I knew that they were going to disagree with me. I knew that conflict would probably be there as oftentimes. If you’re assertive, you will not have everybody in the room liking you, or liking what you have to say, but that goes with the territory. It’s risky, period. Emilie continued to say that during the –
[0:29:57.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s risky?
[0:29:58.2] AMY MOORE: It’s risky. It’s risky to be assertive.
[0:30:01.6] ERIN LINEHAN: It helps you to be in alignment with yourself though.
[0:30:04.0] AMY MOORE: Oh, my gosh. The upside of it –
[0:30:05.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Which is the energetic drain of that is massive.
[0:30:08.3] AMY MOORE: Exactly. The upside of it totally outweighs the risk, in my opinion. The idea would be – so say I went in and I was about to say what I wanted, which is my content, right? Before I would do that and before I knew I was going to go into that, I might say something like, “Hey, boss man.”
[0:30:32.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: A boss lady.
[0:30:33.9] AMY MOORE: Well, let’s be real. I mean, a lot of these people a lot of women work in male-dominant – it’s just real. The other thing that Emilie said real quick was that there – we do live in a very pale and male society, who those pale and male individuals are leading our country and leading so many businesses and that’s just the reality. What can we do? Well, we can learn how to –
[0:31:01.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Show the fuck up.
[0:31:02.5] AMY MOORE: Be aggressive and allow other people to also – I’m sorry, not aggressive. Be assertive and allow other people –
[0:31:08.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How to be aggressive.
[0:31:10.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah and allow other people.
[0:31:10.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Be aggressive. Be, be aggressive. B-E-A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E. Be aggressive. Be, be aggressive. Go.
[0:31:19.2] AMY MOORE: Yes. I remember that cheer.
[0:31:22.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Be, be assertive.
[0:31:24.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Be, be assertive.
[0:31:26.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hey.
[0:31:30.5] AMY MOORE: Oh, boy.
[0:31:32.9] ERIN LINEHAN: The content intent. Give the example.
[0:31:34.2] AMY MOORE: Content intent. Okay.
[0:31:36.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Hey, boss man. That’s where we were.
[0:31:37.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. It would be like, “Hey boss man, my intent.” You could even start with my intent or whatever, but I want to have this meeting with you, because I need to just express where I’m at. It’s important for me to just make sure we’re on the same page of where we’re at, or where we’re coming from regarding my pay. Something like that. I’m stating like, “Hey, here’s why I’m here. Here’s why I’m having this meeting.”
Then go into, “By the way, I know that so-and-so, or I’m due for a raise. I know that I am deserving of that based on my performance. Here are a few examples why.” Then it’s like, here’s what I want and here’s why.” Not to over explain, but just proof. Or what’s your credible material.
[0:32:30.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah.
[0:32:32.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What would be the aggressive version of that?
[0:32:35.1] AMY MOORE: It’d be like, “Hey, I –”
[0:32:37.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Work my ass off. I need a raise.
[0:32:39.1] AMY MOORE: Or like, “Hey, I need time right now with you. You’re super busy, but I need to find 5 minutes.” Then you find the five minutes. “Okay, I’ve been trying to meet with you. I know that I deserve more money.” Or not even I deserve, but it would be like, “I want a raise and it needs to be 20% higher than what I currently,” or whatever. 20% would be a really great raise. Does that make sense? If you slide and just set the bar of why I’m setting this meeting, because I want to be on the same page and I want you to know where I’m coming from regarding my pay. That’s the intent.
[0:33:21.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. I found a couple things –
[0:33:22.7] ERIN LINEHAN: If we’re going back to energetics real quick. It feels when we’re assertive, we’re strong in our center and we’re just presenting. No apologies. Unapologetic, you’re just in your center. When you’re aggressive –
[0:33:34.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. You don’t have to be a bitch.
[0:33:36.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. It could be perceived that way and you do not have control over what other people think about you in that way, right?
[0:33:43.2] AMY MOORE: Tone and setting your intention.
[0:33:46.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Aggressive I think is if you think energetically is as if you’re stepping for to someone with your energy, and so then that’s the steamrolling thing, and I think that that – people can feel that regardless if they’re aware if they can or not. It’s like, “Whoa, dude. What is going on?” Does that make sense?
[0:34:03.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That steamroll feeling.
[0:34:03.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes.
[0:34:04.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I found this article about aggressive versus assertive communication. This is on cmoe.com. This says that aggressive communication denies the rights of others, insults, wins at all cost, is emotionally charged, lacks consideration and empathy for others and damages others self-esteem. Whereas, assertive communication does not use inappropriate anger or emotion, does not try to hurt others, is honest, fair and direct, allows others to save face, expresses emotion using eye contact and positive body language and practices good listening behaviors.
[0:34:39.5] AMY MOORE: I just think even with that, you have no control of whether or not you’re going to hurt someone or not. I appreciate what they’re saying, but I would say that based on the Emilie Aries presentation, the number one thing is even if someone is loud and taking up whatever their space, they can still be assertive, even though many people will consider them to be aggressive, because the biggest difference is if they’re allowing other people to have their own opinion too.
She was saying – the other thing that Emilie was saying was how powerful it can be in a meeting. Say there’s one person who’s just talking, talking, talking, talking. “This is the way we’re going to do this. Here’s what I want. Here’s how I want it to be done. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”
To be seen as a leader, if you’re looking for that raise, or if you’re looking for a promotion, or whatever it is in the workplace, you could interject and also maybe interrupt this person who is just taking it and talking and talking and talking and not allowing for anyone else to say anything.
You could say, “I hear what you’re saying. Let’s give everybody else an opportunity to hear what they’re saying, because I know, I’m sure there’s other valuable opinions out there.” That is considered, like you would be, according to the research Emilie has done, you would be seen as a leader and as assertive, because you’re stepping in. Yes, I hear you, but and let’s get everybody else involved.
[0:36:15.3] ERIN LINEHAN: What if that person that was talking was the boss? Really?
[0:36:19.4] AMY MOORE: Yes. That came up in the conversation.
[0:36:22.1] ERIN LINEHAN: What did she say?
[0:36:23.4] AMY MOORE: Then you’ll really be seen as a leader, because it’s not like you’re saying, “Hey, now it’s my turn to talk,” to the boss, who’s talking, talking, talking, and talking. It looks like everybody is – your eyes are glazing over, you know what I’m saying? Instead, you’re trying to get other perspectives involved.
[0:36:41.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Interesting.
[0:36:42.3] AMY MOORE: I thought it was super interesting. The other tip that I’m just going to end on, which with the Emilie Aries stuff is physically taking up space. She showed, there was a visual of a –
[0:36:54.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s hard for women.
[0:36:55.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah.
[0:36:56.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Especially – I mean, in thinking about on the body episode that we did, it’s our society is, women are small. That’s what we’re taught.
[0:37:05.3] AMY MOORE: Exactly. We did this exercise as the audience and she was like, “Okay, everybody. Sit in your chair and sit like a man.”
[0:37:13.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Right here. Right here.
[0:37:16.7] AMY MOORE: Automatically –
[0:37:17.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Let those balls hang out?
[0:37:18.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Everyone in the room – thank you, Anna. Everyone in the room –
[0:37:24.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Man spread.
[0:37:26.6] AMY MOORE: Man spread. Yeah. Then she was like, “Okay.” Then sit like a proper – like a woman.
[0:37:33.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sit like a man on the subway?
[0:37:34.7] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah. Everyone crossed their legs, crossed their arms and became very narrow and very small. She was saying –
[0:37:45.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a good visual.
[0:37:46.5] AMY MOORE: Yes. She was saying all of us women have the opportunity to teach all the little girls who are watching us every day, no matter who you are, to take up space.
She was saying, stand, spread, your legs, take the power stance that Wonder Woman takes and teach other little girls, or at least be a model, to how you can stand and you don’t have to be so small and criss-cross legs and arms and petite and whatever.
No. Take up space. I think about that with the energy field like, “Oh, my God. How beautiful is that?” You stand, you sit. My energy field, if I make that movement, which for some reason right now I’m like, oh. We’ve got movements over here in the studio. Yeah, I just think about physical space and taking that.
[0:38:44.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a good training. It’s a good workshop.
[0:38:46.3] AMY MOORE: It really was.
[0:38:46.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, it sounds amazing. There is this article that I found on Refinery29 actually.
[0:38:52.4] ERIN LINEHAN: On what?
[0:38:53.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Refinery29.com.
[0:38:54.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t know what that is.
[0:38:56.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What?
[0:38:56.5] ERIN LINEHAN: No.
[0:38:57.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, it’s really good.
[0:38:58.1] AMY MOORE: Neither do I.
[0:38:59.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, okay. Well, it’s good. There is this, these experiments that I’ve seen where women don’t defer to men in public, as far as they don’t get out of the men’s way. As an experiment to see, because men have a way of, they just take up space. That’s what they’re taught to do and women are not, obviously like you just said.
What they do in the subway in particular, or busy cities, or even here in Denver is they don’t get out of the way. Then what they do is that just shows them how many times they get bonked, because the men just expect the woman to get out of the way. Isn’t that crazy?
[0:39:37.0] AMY MOORE: That’s crazy. There’s so much subconscious stuff going on.
[0:39:42.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This article says, we didn’t get out of the men’s way for a week. This is how many injuries we sustained.
[0:39:48.0] ERIN LINEHAN: What?
[0:39:48.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. This is an article by Kimberly Truong. Oh, I’m – T-R-U-O-N-G. Sorry, Kimberly. Yeah, it’s fascinating. All these women decided to do this and see how many times –
[0:40:02.6] AMY MOORE: Oh, I got to try that.
[0:40:03.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They got body slammed. Isn’t that crazy?
[0:40:08.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I used to play in an adult co-ed soccer league years ago. I’m the same size. It was amazing to me, because I’m the same size as a lot of the dudes. They thought that they could run me over and then would get pissed whenever I would go shoulder to shoulder up with them, because I’m the same size as you.
Then they get surprised like, “Oh, I can’t knock you over.” Well, no shit. It’s super interesting that it’s just in the – When they talk about male privilege, that’s the part thing is because they have been able to do that forever.
[0:40:40.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I want to read this thing, Rachel Chen. She is one of the women who did this experiment. She said her overall experience, she said after two weeks of man-slamming as a 5-foot, 3-inch woman. “I noticed that men tended to bodyslam me or expected me to walk around them more often when I am in flats. I purposely dressed up in heels half the time for this experiment and noticed the man-slamming significantly decreased when I did.
I’m not sure if it’s the perception of dressing up, or if it’s the height that makes women seem more “worthy of respect.” Yeah, isn’t that crazy? She ended up getting body-slammed seven times in two weeks. This article just talks about all these women’s experience.
[0:41:23.3] AMY MOORE: I think the interesting thing, not to – I mean, we don’t want to bash men.
[0:41:27.9] ERIN LINEHAN: No, that’s not what we’re trying to do.
[0:41:28.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s not about bashing men.
[0:41:30.5] AMY MOORE: I think like –
[0:41:31.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s about the unconscious, subconscious biases and then how people move about the world, because culturally, that’s how people have been raised.
[0:41:37.3] AMY MOORE: I would be curious about that experiment. How did the men who did body slam, how did they react? Because I would guess that some of them were like –
[0:41:46.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it’s so subconscious.
[0:41:48.1] AMY MOORE: “Oh, my gosh. Excuse me.” I’m sure some of them were like that. That would be just an interesting question about that experiment.
[0:41:55.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I think it’s such subconscious –
[0:41:57.3] AMY MOORE: I don’t think it would intentional by any means. Yeah, it’s the subconscious elements of our subconscious culture for sure.
[0:42:05.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The people that show up aggressively, what do you think that’s stemmed from? If that’s their communication style, or they have maybe confused assertive with aggressive. What do you think that’s based in? I think it’s –
[0:42:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Tell us, Anna.
[0:42:21.6] AMY MOORE: Anna knows her answer to her question.
[0:42:25.8] ERIN LINEHAN: No, you didn’t say what I wanted you to say, Erin. Let me tell you what you should’ve said.
[0:42:28.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m going to go ahead and take this one. Good question, Anna.
[0:42:34.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Go ahead. Go ahead.
[0:42:36.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. I think it comes from a place of fear, of having a deep insecurity of saying I fear that I’m not going to get what I want, or I fear that I’m going to lose what I have. I have to come at it from this place of an aggressive stance, almost like a caged tiger of if I don’t attack this with – and that’s how I think of aggressive. If I don’t attack this situation with all I’ve got, I’m going to lose here.
When people, men or women act aggressively, I think of it as a deep insecurity and fear that’s leading the show, and ego, honestly, to show up in the world in such an aggressive way. What are you two think?
[0:43:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, it makes me think of a concept where the – that the strongest nervous system in the room wins. If you, if like when someone is coming at us and being aggressive and we can stay really, really calm, then you can regulate that other person. It’s hard to do when we’re triggered by if someone’s coming at us. That is hard to do.
When we can stay calm, then that person either escalates, because they can’t handle that, or then they we eventually can pull down the other person. I’m just thinking about –
[0:43:50.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: When you’re in a verbal fight or something with someone and someone doesn’t take the bait, or doesn’t bite when it’s like, “I’m so mad. You need to be mad with me.” If the other person is calm, it’s like, we can’t have it. It’s not a cycle of let’s fight. It’s like well, it’s just diffused.
[0:44:10.8] AMY MOORE: Isn’t there studies about narcissists who would be more – have a higher tendency to be aggressive people? Isn’t there – maybe? Maybe not.
[0:44:20.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sounds good.
[0:44:21.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Let’s just go with that. There’s something about if you – if a person is in an argument, or in this situation with a narcissist, if the other person, the non-narcissist doesn’t show emotion, stays very, very calm, then it’s like the narcissist will basically self-implode, or they’ll self-destruct. Have you ever heard that?
[0:44:45.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I have not heard that.
[0:44:46.9] AMY MOORE: I read that somewhere, which I think is super interesting. I don’t know. I just want to give a couple other – going back to this workshop.
[0:44:54.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Amy really liked it. Good job, Emilie.
[0:44:55.6] AMY MOORE: I did. I did. This was straight from one of the slides. I think this is really great, just three tips right now for verbal assertiveness. Avoid filler words. Don’t use filler words.
[0:45:10.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Which would be –
[0:45:12.3] AMY MOORE: Like, “Um, uh, duh.” Any filler words. Instead, you want to pause, because the most powerful thing can be silence. Think then answer. That was one. The second is avoid qualifiers. No, “I think. Well, I feel like.”
[0:45:33.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The softening of the message.
[0:45:35.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Or like, “Um, I mean, I know you might not agree with this, but here, let me just explain. I’m kind of thinking about this.”
[0:45:41.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or the word “just”.
[0:45:43.7] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yes. Then the third is when you’re saying no, is also very – it shows you that you’re assertive, just like saying no. Also, no need to over-explain. She says, have a gymnast finish. You land it, you stick it, you’re done.
[0:46:04.4] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good visual.
[0:46:05.5] AMY MOORE: Isn’t it?
[0:46:06.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Simone Biles, I got you in my head.
[0:46:08.1] AMY MOORE: Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, I thought that was –
[0:46:12.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Great. So good. That’s a good use of time right there.
[0:46:14.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, good little tidbits. It really was. Yeah.
[0:46:18.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I just found this article on Goop and it says how women undermine themselves with words. They say things like, “I’m no expert, but.” Then they have the word “just”, or they insert the word “actually”. Like, “I actually disagree.” Whereas, it just makes you sound surprised. It actually makes us sound surprised that we disagree or have a question.
[0:46:40.6] ERIN LINEHAN: What gives your power away.
[0:46:42.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Using qualifiers like, “I’m no expert, but…” Or, “I know you have all been doing all the research. Have been researching this –”
[0:46:51.1] AMY MOORE: It’s like giving someone too much credit. I’m sorry, ladies, but it’s time to take it ourselves. That’s where I’m at right now in life. Done.
[0:47:01.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is interesting. I haven’t heard of this one. It says, asking, “Does that make sense? Or am I making sense?”
[0:47:06.5] AMY MOORE: Oh, yes, yes. Or when you say, “Right? Right?”
[0:47:11.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. The problem is that this quote, “does that make sense,” comes across either as condescending, like your audience can’t understand, or it implies you feel you’ve been incoherent. Isn’t that amazing?
[0:47:24.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes.
[0:47:27.3] AMY MOORE: Lots of great tidbits we’re finding.
[0:47:28.4] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s amazing in editing when I’m doing editing and I hear myself say these things. That’s what I’m thinking.
[0:47:32.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, I bet. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of ways. I think being assertive is such a great tie-in to boundaries, because it’s we have these boundaries and we’re trying to establish boundaries, so that then we can protect our energy fields, so that we can feel stronger, healthier, less triggered in our lives.
[0:47:58.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think a huge indication talking about boundaries and assertiveness, if we find ourselves feeling resentful, that is a huge, huge, huge indicator that a boundary has been crossed and something to look at about like, “What do I feel has been crossed? Why do I feel violated?”
[0:48:15.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Check yo’self.
[0:48:18.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Before you wreck yourselves.
[0:48:19.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right.
[0:48:20.5] AMY MOORE: That’s right. Erin, there was something that you had sent that we were going to read and I’m just wondering which – how to create boundaries, is that what you’re –
[0:48:29.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, so I found this, The No BS Guide to Protecting Your Emotional Space and it’s on healthwine.com. We’ll post the link in the show notes, but I think it’s super interesting because they had tons of things, like we can set boundaries for our personal space, sexuality, emotions and thoughts, stuff or possessions, time and energy, culture, religion and ethics. I think they just gave a lot of really great highlighted things that you could –
[0:49:00.6] AMY MOORE: I could just say the ones that they number quick. Number one, boundaries improve our relationships and self-esteem. Number two, boundaries can be flexible. I think that’s really great pointer. Number three, boundaries allow us to conserve our emotional energy.
[0:49:18.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Truth.
[0:49:19.0] AMY MOORE: Number four, boundaries give us space to grow and be vulnerable. Yeah, those are the big ones. The benefits of boundaries. I think it’s so good.
[0:49:31.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Boundaries are so good.
[0:49:32.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can we talk really quick, so that our listeners have some tangible ideas about what boundary setting looks like? Can we talk about sometimes that we have set boundaries in our lives? If that went over well, what the response was? Because I think sometimes when we think about boundaries, we think about the other person’s reaction and that it might not go well. I feel –
[0:49:55.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s important to remember that we cannot – I had an internship supervisor tell me this when I first – when I was interning for grad school. She said that when you set boundaries, you cannot simultaneously set boundaries and also take care of someone else’s feelings that you set boundaries with. That is super important.
[0:50:15.3] AMY MOORE: So good. So important.
[0:50:16.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. It’s just important to remember that to go back to boundaries, that when you cannot take care of the other person’s feelings, because you just set the boundary. You can be kind and you can be compassionate, but if the person doesn’t like the boundary you set, it’s not your job to take care of it.
[0:50:31.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think when you are new to setting boundaries, people – if they’re used to use – for example, saying yes to everything and your relationship looks a certain way. Then all of a sudden you’re like, “No, that’s not going to work for me.” Or, “No, I can’t.” That’s something that a lot of people might not like.
[0:50:49.6] ERIN LINEHAN: There will be pushback too. Then things will regulate.
[0:50:52.6] AMY MOORE: Like we said, it’s risky. You set a boundary.
[0:50:55.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it’s worth it though.
[0:50:57.5] AMY MOORE: You set a boundary. I think inherent in setting a boundary, you are being assertive. There is a –
[0:51:06.3] ERIN LINEHAN: If you’re saying no.
[0:51:07.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. There is a great choice, or there’s a great chance of conflict. From the comp, that’s risky. You got to be brave to set the boundary.
[0:51:23.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I also think that the people that set boundaries in your life, that you set boundaries with, the ones that respect those boundaries, they might get a little bit like, “Hey, that doesn’t feel that good.”
Then the ones that respect your boundaries are probably the people that you want to keep around more, because they’re the ones that are probably not going to drain you energetically or cross your energetic boundaries there. It’s important.
[0:51:47.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a good – that’s a green flag.
[0:51:50.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That is a green flag. Like, “Oh, hey. I was pissed when you said that, but okay. At least I know where I stand with you.”
[0:51:57.8] AMY MOORE: I have an example of a boundary that I set up, or whatever had. A family member of mine is an alcoholic, an active alcoholic. For my kids, I didn’t want that person to be intoxicated around my kids. I didn’t know their partner really at all. I have only been exposed to unhealthy behaviors from that partner.
My boundary was that my kids, or that family member and their partner could not be around my kids if they were intoxicated, or if I had any sense of them being under the influence. It was really up to me, not up to them to tell me whether or not they were intoxicated. It was more like, “Things don’t feel good right now. I don’t know what you’re up to.”
[0:52:52.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can I ask you a question?
[0:52:52.9] AMY MOORE: Mm-hmm.
[0:52:53.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How did you relay that to this person?
[0:52:56.6] AMY MOORE: I think verbally and through e-mail. Yeah. Just like, “Hey, here’s where I’m at. You can’t be around my kids when you’re intoxicated and neither can your partner. If I get any feeling that you are, then –”
[0:53:11.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re out.
[0:53:12.1] AMY MOORE: You’re out. Yeah. Or we will leave. I think I said that that it was that I will be leaving with my kids. Anyway, yeah, it was a big boundary to set. It has had really tough outcomes, because I have not seen that family member for years, to be honest.
They’ve only met my kids one time. There’s just been a lot of grief around that, but it was a boundary that was really needed – for me, I needed to set that to feel safe and to feel like a good mom and to protect my kids and frankly, myself.
[0:53:52.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think that brings up a really good point too is that with boundaries, we have to relay the information to the people. We can’t expect them to read our minds, right?
[0:54:02.7] AMY MOORE: Totally.
[0:54:03.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because it’s the idea of being in traffic and being like, “Why the heck aren’t they letting me over?” Then realizing, “I never even put my blinker on.” It’s like, “What the hell?” What do you expect? Being forthright. Did you think of an example, Erin?
[0:54:19.0] ERIN LINEHAN: No.
[0:54:20.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. Another thing that I heard about – I’m taking this. I’m running with this.
[0:54:25.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Take it, girl.
[0:54:26.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m being assertive now, y’all.
[0:54:27.9] AMY MOORE: You are, but you asked Erin.
[0:54:29.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Go ahead.
[0:54:30.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I can ask her.
[0:54:31.3] AMY MOORE: Of course. Of course. I thought you were going to –
[0:54:34.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I wasn’t. No, I was going back to that. I wasn’t saying –
[0:54:37.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, this time she was making sure I had a voice.
[0:54:40.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. Now I’m moving on to something else.
[0:54:43.4] AMY MOORE: Okay, sweet.
[0:54:44.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. You see this how this progression –
[0:54:47.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah, you’re doing awesome.
[0:54:48.3] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re A students.
[0:54:49.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: A student. Okay, so –
[0:54:51.5] AMY MOORE: Homecoming queen.
[0:54:55.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Another tip that I heard and I forget where I learned this, so apologies to whoever made this up. The idea of if you have something heavy to tell someone or talk about or “vent,” to ask the person that you’re asking to listen to you, do you have the capacity to hear me right now –
[0:55:16.2] AMY MOORE: That’s good.
[0:55:16.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Depending on what you’re going through. I thought that was so healthy. That just is damn, to be able to put your needs aside. Because I think sometimes people just start spewing, or venting and it’s like, “Wait a minute. I haven’t thought what is this person going through. Are they able to be here for me and with me in the space? Or is it too much?”
[0:55:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: That situation, the person that is dumping, it’s usually emotionally laid in the thing. If you were to cut that person off in the middle of their emotional dump, you can’t do that, because they – then you’re a dick.
Then it takes it – it puts the there was no permission given and then it puts the ownership on the person that’s being dumped on to be like, “Hey, dude. Stop. I can’t take this right now.” I think that it’s so good to ask ahead of time like, “Hey, are you in a space to hear this?” I think that is super, super important. Yeah.
[0:56:13.3] AMY MOORE: So good. I think with that, we’re going to wrap things up here. I’ve got a quote that relates exactly to what Erin just said. This one is from Sheryl Sandberg. It says, “We cannot change what we are not aware of. Once we are aware, we cannot help but change.” Here’s to getting boundaries in place.
[0:56:39.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yup, what’s the challenge or the nugget?
[0:56:41.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have an idea.
[0:56:42.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Let’s hear it.
[0:56:43.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: My idea for the awareness nugget is to notice where you’re feeling resentful and ask yourself if a boundary needs to be set in place. One other thing I want to make available to everyone, we did this in season one, but I have a ways to say no guide that I want to give everyone again. We’ll link that in the show notes, but what do you think about that awareness challenge?
[0:57:08.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s great. Because I think a lot of times when people are resentful that they are blaming it on the other person, it’s this person did this and this person did this. Always, there’s two sides of things, right?
[0:57:17.9] AMY MOORE: Resentment or blame. Where you’re finding yourself feeling resentful, or blaming someone, something, someone else.
[0:57:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. To clarify, I feel the word resentment can be a little like, “Yeah, I don’t have any resentments. It’s not this humongous thing.”
[0:57:34.3] ERIN LINEHAN: What are you still pissed about?
[0:57:35.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think of resentments as this idea of they have this thought, or this situation, or this idea has a hook in you that you can’t let go. It may seem big, it may not seem big, but it’s got you. It’s got a hook in you. That’s an indication that something is going on. Be aware of that. That’s my idea for the awareness nugget challenge.
[0:57:55.9] AMY MOORE: I love it. That’s great.
[0:57:57.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that’s great.
[0:57:58.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Cool.
[0:57:58.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Well then, Anna.
[0:57:59.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.
[0:57:59.6] AMY MOORE: All right, everybody. Thanks so much for being with us today.
[0:58:01.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.
[0:58:02.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.
[0:58:04.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bye.
[0:58:04.8] AMY MOORE: Bye.
[0:58:06.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. We talk about connection. That’s what our deal is here. We have a six-step roadmap for instant connection. You can get that at connectionroadmap.com. It will give you the hook-up on what to do to get instantly connected with people in this world.
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:58:27.9] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com. If you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.
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