EP20: The Practice of Remembering
The endless (and surprising!) joys of a deep belly button, bullet shells, burnt eyeballs, lovin’ on the mens, pro-level seques, How to Not Judge People, things you’d be surprised to know about us, absolutely riveting grocery store line stories, being #SorryNotSorry, and why 72 MPH is the perfect speed limit. Plus, we talk about the connection to community and (dare we say!) circles!
We talk about all this and more so be sure to tune in!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
- Shapa Scale – The best numberless scale available! Use the code LESSALONE for a FREE Shapa Scale (!!!) PLUS get FREE shipping when you sign up for a 12-month subscription to their app!
- Broomfield, Colorado Therapist: The Kali Institute Free Online Workshop
- EP19 Interview with Sadie Lincoln of Barre3
- How to Rate and Review a Podcast on Apple Podcasts
- EP09 Our Bodies, Our Fine A$$ Selves
- Our Less Alone Podcast Playlists: HYPE, CHILL, COLLAB (add your faves! We want to hear what YOU are listening to!)
- Who is Anodea Judith?
- Less Alone Podcast Community Group
- Responsive Classrooms
- “I Voted Clinton. You Voted Trump. Let’s Talk.”
- Video about Anna’s Starbucks drive-through line situation
- Get out of debt online support group: SpendingFastersGroup.com
- Article: The Loneliness Epidemic
- Who is Dr. Dean Ornish?
- Oprah Winfrey’s Super Soul Sunday podcast
- Campaign to End Loneliness in the UK
- Article: What Happened What I Replaced Sorry with Thank You
- Get your Free 6-Step Roadmap to Instant Connection: ConnectionRoadmap.com
P.S. Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!
[0:00:00.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The contents of this show are for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on the show does not create a client-therapist relationship and should not be taken as professional advice. Before making any decisions regarding your healthcare, ask your personal physician, or mental healthcare professional, or call 911 for any emergencies.
AMY MOORE: Today our sponsor is Shapa, a numberless scale and personalized plan that will completely change the way you think about your overall health and hitting your goals. Shapa is perfect for people who are making an effort towards a healthier lifestyle but do not want to feel confused or judged by a number.Instead, when you step on your Shapa you will see a color based on your weight trend over the past 10 days. *so if you go out for tacos the night before, Shapa won’t judge!*
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[0:00:21.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.
[0:00:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.
[0:00:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.
[0:00:35.1] AMY MOORE: Hey, Anna.
[0:00:35.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah?
[0:00:36.1] AMY MOORE: You know Erin’s a pretty badass therapist, right?
[0:00:38.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I totally know. I just take notes when she’s talking.
[0:00:42.1] AMY MOORE: Me too. Some of our audience does as well. Did you know that there’s also a place that you can get information directly from her?
[0:00:52.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: On her website, right?
[0:00:53.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Didn’t you do it?
[0:00:55.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.
[0:00:55.9] AMY MOORE: Tell us about it.
[0:00:56.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, so there’s all these free workshops that they’re offering. At thekaliinstitute.com, you can sign up for those. K-A-L-I is how you spell Kali and then Institute, thekaliinstitute.com.
[0:01:09.1] AMY MOORE: Get it done.
[0:01:11.3] AMY MOORE: Hey, everybody. We are back in the studio. So excited to be here.
[0:01:15.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Energy.
[0:01:16.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Energy.
[0:01:17.7] AMY MOORE: We’ve got so much energy this morning.
[0:01:19.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, my gosh. We’re pumped.
[0:01:20.6] AMY MOORE: Coffee. We are going to – a couple things came up from the interview that we were so lucky to have with Sadie Lincoln. For us – well actually, before we go into that, what did you guys – the question we asked her was what’s something that’s surprising that you would know, or some that –
[0:01:41.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That people would be surprised to know about you.
[0:01:43.5] AMY MOORE: Anna, why don’t you answer that question?
[0:01:45.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I would say most people don’t have any idea how goofy I truly am.
[0:01:53.1] ERIN LINEHAN: That is true. I think that you had that well.
[0:01:55.3] AMY MOORE: Yes.
[0:01:56.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I mean, it comes out on the pot –
[0:01:57.5] AMY MOORE: Goofball.
[0:01:58.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Over here. Yes.
[0:02:02.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, boy.
[0:02:03.0] AMY MOORE: Hey.
[0:02:05.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, it comes off with you two, but I definitely am pretty I don’t know. I don’t come across that way, I think when people first meet me.
[0:02:12.6] AMY MOORE: I think you come off just as a little bit more reserved.
[0:02:15.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Not true. It’s not true at all.
[0:02:17.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The reserved?
[0:02:18.0] ERIN LINEHAN: No.
[0:02:18.9] AMY MOORE: Oh, hell no.
[0:02:20.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Just a façade.
[0:02:22.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think that’s what people are probably most surprised about. Then the second thing would probably be the press stuff that I’ve been in, or that I’ve written a book. People are like, “Oh, what? I didn’t know that you were –”
[0:02:36.2] AMY MOORE: With friends, I have to say that I would always tell people, because you never tell people.
[0:02:44.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know. I appreciate that.
[0:02:45.3] AMY MOORE: I hope you do.
[0:02:46.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re like my [inaudible 0:02:47.0]. You’re like, “Anna, cut it out. You had a book. You had it on.” Come on, Good Morning America.
[0:02:53.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah, I appreciate that, because it’s awesome.
[0:02:56.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It is awesome.
[0:02:57.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s weird to be like, “Hey. Hi, nice to meet you. By the way, here’s all these things I did.” I can’t do that.
[0:03:05.5] AMY MOORE: I don’t know though. Can you?
[0:03:06.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can you? I guess. I don’t know. I feel like –
[0:03:08.0] AMY MOORE: I mean, you can do it in a way where –
[0:03:09.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, just keep Amy with you.
[0:03:11.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. She’s my hype lady.
[0:03:13.1] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re the hype lady.
[0:03:13.7] AMY MOORE: I’ll hype you up all the time. Erin, what about you?
[0:03:18.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I was thinking about – I almost started telling them before we started. Stop, stop, stop!
[0:03:24.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She goes, “You will be shocked.”
[0:03:29.0] ERIN LINEHAN: The camp that I worked out, so there’s regular camp in the summer and then there’s a family camp the week after, or the couple weeks after camp. I did a family camp and the activity that I was assigned to for the day was the riflery range. I’m like, “I don’t know anything about guns. I’ve never even shot a gun,” but we’ll watch these people shoot these guns. I got bored, because you sit there all day. I don’t think we had very many campers, and so every night there was a talent show at campfire during the evening. My stomach was a little bit fatter at the time. I took –
[0:04:01.0] AMY MOORE: Oh, boy.
[0:04:02.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I took the bullet shells, like the discarded 22 bullet shells and I was like, “Huh, I wonder how many I could stick in my bellybutton.” Yeah, I’ll tell you. Go ahead and guess how many.
[0:04:19.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Three.
[0:04:20.2] ERIN LINEHAN: No. More.
[0:04:20.9] AMY MOORE: Wait. Those things?
[0:04:21.9] ERIN LINEHAN: 14 little ones. The little ones. 14 shells in my bellybutton, because I have no other talents, but none for a talent show.
[0:04:31.6] AMY MOORE: That is the strangest thing I’ve ever heard.
[0:04:35.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It was amazing.
[0:04:38.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You were so proud of this.
[0:04:42.0] ERIN LINEHAN: The people were like, “What?” Some dudes were like – the dads were like disgusted.
[0:04:44.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Were you laying down?
[0:04:46.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I was laying down and I stick it with –
[0:04:48.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: At the campfire?
[0:04:49.0] AMY MOORE: I’m not sure like what does that say about your bellybutton.
[0:04:52.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s real deep. That’s what it says. That’s why I said I was a little fatter. The fatter I am, the deeper the bellybutton is.
[0:05:03.6] AMY MOORE: Wow. I would have never – no. That is true. You can’t even make that shit up. No.
[0:05:11.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Then I had the little casino you never know when you showed this trick to people. I had them in a little Altoids box, so I had them in a backpack and then I was –
[0:05:21.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You are all, “Oh, this is going to be good.”
[0:05:23.4] AMY MOORE: You got to go on America’s Got Talent.
[0:05:27.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I had to go to the English consulate volunteering to get my Visa or whatever. That I was like, I had these in there and I’m like, “I’m not going to be able to go through the side to throw them out, which was so sad.” Because I was like, “How am I going to explain my bullet shells?”
[0:05:39.6] AMY MOORE: You need permission.
[0:05:42.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Well, you were like, “I have a really excuse.”
[0:05:44.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m going to show you.
[0:05:45.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You are like, “I have a really good belly flash.”
[0:05:48.3] AMY MOORE: Bellybutton flash.
[0:05:49.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re all, “Trust me. I have a really good reason for having these shells. Watch this.”
[0:05:54.7] AMY MOORE: I’m going to lay down right here.
[0:05:56.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re just laying down everywhere stuffing your bellybutton with bullet shells.
[0:05:59.3] ERIN LINEHAN: People are like, “What the hell is going on?” It’s my talent.
[0:06:04.2] AMY MOORE: I wonder if some of our listeners are feeling that way right now.
[0:06:07.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right. It’s okay.
[0:06:08.2] AMY MOORE: That’s your talent.
[0:06:08.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s my talent.
[0:06:10.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Amy, you have to follow that. Erin, you should’ve gone last.
[0:06:14.9] ERIN LINEHAN: She asked me.
[0:06:15.7] AMY MOORE: Okay. Well, I was going to say that my naked hiking, that’s already been fully publicized at this point.
[0:06:25.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Into the National Raynor. Everybody knows.
[0:06:29.5] ERIN LINEHAN: They made nicknames?
[0:06:35.4] AMY MOORE: Thank you. I’m not going there. Let me tell you – I’ll tell you two things. This is really hard to follow, I got to say with the bellybutton contest.
[0:06:43.9] ERIN LINEHAN: This is the same time period in my life as a sandwich costume.
[0:06:45.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel like mine wasn’t good too. I’m like, “What?”
[0:06:48.3] AMY MOORE: No. Two things that you would not know about me are they both happened in the same time period of my life. Elementary school. Okay, I’m going to say three things, because they’re quick, okay?
[0:07:01.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Let’s go.
[0:07:01.9] AMY MOORE: One, I burned my eyeball with a curling iron.
[0:07:05.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Your eyeball?
[0:07:07.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That sounds painful.
[0:07:08.9] AMY MOORE: The blue part of my eye, when I was in I don’t know, 4th grade maybe. I had of course, the curled bangs that then you’d back home. Anyway –
[0:07:19.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Tight-rolled jeans?
[0:07:20.7] AMY MOORE: Oh, you should’ve seen those outfits. The hair though. Anyway, dropped the curling iron, swung down –
[0:07:26.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin’s keeping us on track.
[0:07:27.6] AMY MOORE: The blue part of my eye, it blistered. My eyeball blistered, had to go to the emergency room, get Novocaine on my eyeball and then they had to scape it off. Then I had to go to school with an eyepatch.
[0:07:40.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, no private Amy.
[0:07:40.9] AMY MOORE: Not cool. Okay. Second thing, I am in a hair magazine.
[0:07:46.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Shut your face.
[0:07:46.7] AMY MOORE: I was a hair model.
[0:07:48.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Recently?
[0:07:49.4] AMY MOORE: No. This is all late – I don’t know, elementary school.
[0:07:53.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Those were the days.
[0:07:54.0] ERIN LINEHAN: You could do a Pantene flip.
[0:07:55.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. No, not Pantene. It’s just me very serious. I still have the magazine.
[0:07:59.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I want to see this.
[0:08:03.3] AMY MOORE: Number three, also during the same time of my –
[0:08:05.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is big.
[0:08:06.4] AMY MOORE: – adventurous time.
[0:08:07.7] ERIN LINEHAN: She had the stuff away in her pocket.
[0:08:08.9] AMY MOORE: I got my deer hunting license.
[0:08:12.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Of course you did.
[0:08:13.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I went to hunter’s safety. My best friend from elementary school, “Amanda Williamson,” she and I – her family – well, they are still big deer hunters and we were living in rural Wisconsin and I wanted to go hunting. My dad also deer hunted and so did my brothers, but the girls never got to go. They were supposed to stay home and go shopping.
[0:08:36.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Cook.
[0:08:37.8] AMY MOORE: I wanted to go hunting, not only with Amanda and her family, but sometimes maybe with my dad and brothers. Yeah, hunting license. I fully saw how to gut a deer.
[0:08:50.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, yeah. I have been raised of that, but deer hung up in people’s garages –
[0:08:54.5] AMY MOORE: Oh, totally. That was a huge deal.
[0:08:56.0] ERIN LINEHAN: In Pennsylvania. Well in Pennsylvania, you get the first day off at deer hunting season. There is that. Yeah, there is that.
[0:08:59.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah, similar to Wisconsin.
[0:09:01.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Anna’s like, “What is happening?” There has to be Nebraska deer hunters.
[0:09:05.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I lived there for two years. I also remember.
[0:09:11.4] ERIN LINEHAN: She just got aggressive.
[0:09:13.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I got defensive.
[0:09:14.0] ERIN LINEHAN: You did. Okay are focussing.
[0:09:17.6] AMY MOORE: There would be a pile of deer, dead deer at the local butcher.
[0:09:24.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. All right.
[0:09:25.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then you could get your venison meat. It’s amazing. Anyway, those are my items.
[0:09:30.7] ERIN LINEHAN: A pile of dead deer.
[0:09:32.2] AMY MOORE: Erin just cut me off.
[0:09:33.6] ERIN LINEHAN: You lost me there.
[0:09:34.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, says the vegetarian.
[0:09:36.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, that’s right. Sorry. Anyway, at least they weren’t mass produced cows.
[0:09:43.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s true. Absolutely.
[0:09:45.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I mean, hunted. I never did kill a deer. Okay. Ladies, we’ve got some fun topics to cover today from our interview with Sadie Lincoln.
[0:09:59.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: First, we have a review.
[0:10:00.4] AMY MOORE: Thank you, Anna.
[0:10:03.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Look at you, taking lessons and tips from Captain Segue. Well done.
[0:10:08.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “She totally forgot about that. Be the paper I handed her earlier.” I’m going to remind her.
[0:10:12.6] AMY MOORE: Here I have right now. This one I got to say like, hits me personally, because I have shared in this loneliness. The title is S-A-H-M.
[0:10:23.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Stay at home mom.
[0:10:26.2] AMY MOORE: Not alone anymore. Isn’t that great? I know. I know. I feel freer.
[0:10:31.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Heart-to-heart hug. That’s what that is.
[0:10:33.3] AMY MOORE: This is from Gweny24. Just want to say a big shout out, thank you to Gweny24, because I know there are a lot of people in this position feeling this way. Anyway, here’s what it says, “I have struggled with finding friends since I became a stay-at-home mom. I’m already loving the podcast, because I feel I have the tools now to get over my anxiety of meeting new people. You know at school pick up when I don’t know what to say? I can use the rule the ladies shared about asking three open-ended questions to someone new. Thank you ladies for helping me get over my loneliness as a stay-at-home mom.”
[0:11:11.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, Gweny.
[0:11:12.9] AMY MOORE: Thank you, Gweny.
[0:11:14.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.
[0:11:15.4] AMY MOORE: I totally understand that. I have been a stay-at-home mom. Some of the loneliest times, I got to say. Yeah. Anyway, thank you for that.
[0:11:26.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Then you met us.
[0:11:27.6] AMY MOORE: Then no you listened to Less Alone.
[0:11:31.1] ERIN LINEHAN: No, you met us.
[0:11:32.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, that I met you guys. Oh, yeah. My world changed.
[0:11:36.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Boom. Okay.
[0:11:42.5] AMY MOORE: We’ve got some great things that came out of our conversation that we wanted to talk about today.
[0:11:49.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It was a powerful interview.
[0:11:49.8] AMY MOORE: It really was. The power of the circle. How about that?
[0:11:55.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then the death being birth.
[0:12:00.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, that was wild.
[0:12:01.7] AMY MOORE: So many, so many good things. I really also love how barre3 and how Sadie was saying that it’s you exercise not to change your body, but you exercise to accept your body.
[0:12:15.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, why do you like that so much?
[0:12:18.1] AMY MOORE: Because that is the total opposite of how I’ve always thought of exercise. The dieting and we talked about this in the body episode, but –
[0:12:27.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Our body is not fun ourselves.
[0:12:30.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Say that again.
[0:12:32.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Our body is not fun ourselves. Oh, yeah.
[0:12:38.0] ERIN LINEHAN: She listened to Barry White before this episode.
[0:12:40.2] AMY MOORE: Seriously. All right. Well. Anyway, I do think it’s just a huge paradigm shift. I feel you go to gyms, you go work out, you go on these diets, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How am I going to get –
[0:12:54.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s exhausting.
[0:12:55.0] AMY MOORE: – my body to look like that magazine? I mean, it’s just –
[0:12:58.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or just to be different than it is, to not accepting it for what it is.
[0:13:03.1] AMY MOORE: Yes. I have to say when I’m in the barre3, you guys have seen me do this breathing exercise.
[0:13:11.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Sure have.
[0:13:13.4] AMY MOORE: Feeling –
[0:13:14.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Before each recording.
[0:13:15.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Before each recording we’re going to play Tiffany. “I think we’re alone now.” Doesn’t mean we do big breathes.
[0:13:24.3] AMY MOORE: That was just today. Thank you very much.
[0:13:26.4] ERIN LINEHAN: All right, sorry. Off-track.
[0:13:27.9] AMY MOORE: Anyway, bringing us back. The breathing that I think is encouraged in those classes and then the modifications. For me, it has meant a lot because I’ve always wanted my body to be different. There’s parts of my body that I always, always, always. I’m not saying like, “Oh, well son. I don’t want my body to be different.” No. Also like Sadie said, the practicing of it all is very important. I can so easily lose that. For me, it’s really important, like almost daily if I can. Not that I do this, but I would like to remind myself every day that it’s like, there are so many reasons to be grateful for the body I have.
It produced two amazing children and that’s the most amazing thing ever. Then also just it’s strong and I can walk and I can do so many things that I take for granted every day. I love the reminder of appreciating my body as it is.
[0:14:23.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think for me that’s why I really love ultra-running, because there’s not runners, if you think of them stereotypically in your head are small very fit people. In the ultra-running community, there is all different shapes and sizes of people and everyone is welcome and it’s not this pretentious saying, “Sure, there’s elite runners and they’re usually little tiny people,” but everybody is welcome in the ultra-community. I think for me, that has switched instead of trying to change my body so much, I am super grateful the fact that I am strong and that I can run for a really long time.
Then my food follows that, because I want to fuel myself and nourish myself in a way that I can do the things that I want to do that make me feel good. That has been a massive shift for me. I had to take a break from ultra-running because – and training for that, because it’s really intense, one, but then also because I was getting too caught up in the fact that I wanted to look a certain way, or be a certain way, or I needed this thing. It was taking too much of a priority in my life that it just took over. Then I had to take a break from it to reevaluate like –
[0:15:24.1] AMY MOORE: We knew you during that, right? It just happened in the past few years. Yeah, I remember that.
[0:15:28.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Why do I need to do this? Recently, I heard some woman, I was watching some video. She’s a spiritual lady name was Judith, but she was talking about how you can have anything as a spiritual practice. Recently, I’ve been having – I’ve switched my running as a spiritual practice and just showing up however I need to show up that day, but still showing up as a discipline and that has shifted things tremendously.
[0:15:52.4] AMY MOORE: I would imagine if you’re just showing up for a spiritual practice, then you’re able to really listen to your body like, “Do I run fast? Do I walk?” That’s really cool. I have to say, so I did go on one trail run with you.
[0:16:05.8] ERIN LINEHAN: My heart was so happy.
[0:16:07.9] AMY MOORE: It was so fun. It was all so crazy. I got to say that I was amazed at how many people along the trail were encouraging us. We didn’t know any of these people.
[0:16:20.3] ERIN LINEHAN: High-fives.
[0:16:21.2] AMY MOORE: High-fives. It was such a build-up. It was such an encouraging environment. That was really nice. Thank you.
[0:16:29.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, because there’s two women we we’re running up, right? Giving high-fives. “Good job, girl.”
[0:16:32.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s awesome.
[0:16:33.5] AMY MOORE: It was awesome.
[0:16:35.1] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s less, because with ultra-running you’re running so far, and so more people are – you’re basically running with the same 10 people of the race, even if there’s a 100 people in the race. Everyone is like, “We’re not going to win, because we’re in the middle of the pack.” Everyone is like, “Dude, come on. It’s so cool.” Someone could totally bunk at mile 25, but then they can eat and they can come back and then you’ll see them at mile 45 and you’re like, “Dude, you’re back.” This is awesome.
[0:17:01.3] AMY MOORE: It’s so cool.
[0:17:02.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. It was great. There was a guy in my last race and he was sitting on the ground. It looked terrible. He ate. I was like, “Oh.” He was actually – then he got up to walk the opposite direction to leave. Then I was like, “Oh, this guy’s dropping out of the race.” Then I saw him miles later in the race. I’m like, “You stayed.” He was like, “Yes.” I don’t know if they have physically grabbed his hand, but pulled him along and was like, “No, you need to stay in the race. Keep going.” He totally was fine. It was amazing. That’s what the whole community is about and I really appreciate that. That’s why I like it so much.
[0:17:31.6] AMY MOORE: That’s so great.
[0:17:32.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know when I think of when I hear you talking about the community of trail running is that’s what I want our community to be of supporting each other and are women and men in the group of just let’s do this. Like, “You’re not alone. Come on.”
[0:17:49.9] AMY MOORE: Let’s have the conversation. Let’s be open. Let’s support each other. Which can I just segue real quick to a totally off topic? I was talking with a coach, a friend, I don’t know. Anyway, he was listening to our last, I don’t know, some recent episode and saying how – he knows that our target audience are the – many of our members in our community, or listeners are women, but really this is also so important for men. He was saying that as a man, he wanted to be having these same conversations with men. I just wanted to put it out there that I think that for us, the three of us, men come on in. Join the conversation.
[0:18:38.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think it’s even more important for men. More needed.
[0:18:43.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to say, because I’m not a man, but I hope that we’re not excluding men. I don’t know. Just thought that was important to say.
[0:18:51.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We love the men.
[0:18:52.5] ERIN LINEHAN: We love the men. We love the men. Yup.
[0:18:56.6] AMY MOORE: Anyway, thanks.
[0:18:58.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Back to your point of pulling in the circle. You want our community for Less Alone and Sadie talked a lot about things being in circle.
[0:19:06.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Look at you.
[0:19:08.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh. Oh. Oh.
[0:19:09.2] AMY MOORE: These transitions. They’re getting crazier.
[0:19:12.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Pro-level seguers.
[0:19:14.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Seguers.
[0:19:17.4] AMY MOORE: Anna, finish it off Erin.
[0:19:20.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh. Good job. Rein it in. Good job, Amy. Okay. Sadie talked a lot about circles and that they circle up and just are present for each other. It sounds that’s what we want to build with – well, I know that that’s what we want to build with our Less Alone community, so how have circles, or people showing up, or what does that look like for in our own lives?
[0:19:41.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Good question. Amy, you go ahead and take that while I think.
[0:19:45.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Deflect. Right.
[0:19:48.3] AMY MOORE: I think a lot about as a kid, I sat in circles a lot in school, crisscross applesauce, you sit down. Then in my very few years of teaching, the same thing, the importance of circle in community building in a classroom, that’s where my head goes. In education, there’s a whole curriculum around community building and the importance of starting every day with a morning circle. It’s called responsive classroom. That’s what it’s called. We’ll link to it. Responsive classroom, it builds out your first six weeks as a teacher in your classroom. It’s all about building classroom community. I know there are schools – I mean, this was many years ago when I tried it, but I know it’s still a thing.
[0:20:33.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I think my sisters have talked about that. Great teachers. Yeah.
[0:20:35.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. It’s a way of you learn how to share materials in your classroom. You learn how to speak respectfully in a circle. That’s another thing. I think about whether it was camps that I went to as a kid, or I think a lot about bonfires, like sitting in circles and singing. Yes, I went to my fair share of Christian camps where we sang our little hearts out around the campfire.
[0:21:02.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do your ears hang low, do they —
[0:21:04.9] AMY MOORE: Oh, no. This was more about Jesus. Yeah.
[0:21:10.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I didn’t go to those camps.
[0:21:11.6] AMY MOORE: Oh, I did. Many of them. I think about that. I think about in college when I left home, went to college and I had orientations for those of you, this is may be another interesting tidbit, but I did a three-week backpacking orientation with Prescott College, little shout out there. It was intense. It was great. I mean, we also did a three-day solo and fast. I made really great friends with bees during that experience. They were my buddies. As you all know how much I like my social. Yeah, so had to find something. Hey, little bee.
Anyway, during that time – I just feel like, to me, circles are all about intentional community building. Even having dinner with my kids, we sit around our table, our little table is a circle and we sit around and we do a lot of thorns and rose bushes for dinner time.
[0:22:14.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What does that mean for people who don’t know?
[0:22:17.4] AMY MOORE: Thorns are something that wasn’t so great in your day. Rosebuds are something that was great. My brother told us that term. I had just done highs and lows of your day, but my kids really like the thorns and roses. Anyway, we go around the circle of our table and everybody takes their turn and we say how many – usually, it’s two thorns and three or four rosebuds. Again for me, that is just a way that I’m connecting with them and just – I guess it’s circles, community building, connection.
[0:22:53.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think part of our coffee, I think that we had our own little circle. I think that’s why we are here doing the podcast now, because I think in hearing her talk and then my experience with that is that I’ve had that through teams, I’ve had that at camps that I worked at. It’s holding space, but it’s holding space for the entirety of every person in the group. You can come as you are and you can come as you are and I can come as I am and then you are loved and accepted and that’s just how it is.
[0:23:23.7] AMY MOORE: I’m going to interrupt you real quick, because I love the idea of holding space and I know that it’s talked about a fair amount. Can you explain that? What is that? Holding space for someone. What does it look maybe?
[0:23:38.0] ERIN LINEHAN: In this context right, if I am holding space for you as you’re talking, regardless if you are dancing around, right, and we’re with you in that and we’re enjoying each other, or you have something serious going on, or you’re processing through something that I am not trying to change what you’re doing. I’m not trying to insert myself into it. I’m just there listening or experiencing with you. I might be walking alongside you, but I’m not trying to change anything that’s happening.
[0:24:06.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I love that.
[0:24:07.5] AMY MOORE: I know.
[0:24:08.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s just –
[0:24:09.4] AMY MOORE: No advice-giving?
[0:24:10.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Unless it’s asked, or if I have something that generally, I think I’m pretty good about asking for permission if I can share this thing. I think it’s just being with people. I think on at some level energetically, people can feel whether they are accepted and/or if they’re being judged. When that you are accepting someone and you’re not judging them, or you’re not trying to insert yourself in whatever their experiences that you’re just with them, so you’re holding this space for whatever is there.
[0:24:38.4] AMY MOORE: What if you find yourself judging? How can you shift that? There are times where I find myself judging and I don’t want to be.
[0:24:48.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I think then it’s like, okay, and then dropping in really listening to what they’re saying, because the thing is with real holding space, you’re not necessarily in your experience. Your attention is turned towards. Does that make sense? This is whatever you’re judging. Then sitting with and like, “Oh, okay. I get a little bit. This is more about me than it is about them,” and then you drop deeper in and really listen to what the person is saying. Does that make sense?
[0:25:16.3] AMY MOORE: I think so. Say whatever, we’re talking or something and I’m thinking about how, I don’t know, your shirt or something, I don’t know. If I wanted to –
[0:25:28.9] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re judging my fucking shirt? Just kidding. Just kidding.
[0:25:32.8] AMY MOORE: I don’t want to. Then if I catch myself, then I would just really – I would just try to not distract from that thought and just really hear you.
[0:25:44.6] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s the same thing that they talk in meditation, right? They talk about thoughts, or judgmental –
[0:25:50.0] AMY MOORE: By the way, I really do like your shirt. I like the whole look today.
[0:25:53.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Thanks. I think if something comes in, you notice it and then you’re like, “Oh, okay.” Then what are you actually saying? Is someone in pain? What is the underlying thing, or what they’re trying to say and just being with that?
[0:26:10.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I noticed I really struggle with the judging thing when it’s super polarizing things, like politics, or religion and I’m thinking of a certain person in certain situation where I just – I can even set the intention to be like, “I am going to actually just listen.” Then something about the way the conversation always goes like, “I can literally say, I literally just want to know why they think that way and learn,” and then I end up getting so triggered or fired up that I can’t keep my mouth shut. I feel for me, making space and showing up in that way is me keeping my mouth shut.
[0:26:52.2] AMY MOORE: What if you were having that conversation and you were sitting shoulder-to-shoulder in a circle?
[0:26:57.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it would be different. For me, what circles mean is an equal playing field. We’re all equals. I can’t help but think of putting your arms out, grabbing hands with one another and everyone’s involved, everyone’s included, everyone gets a voice. To me, that means no one is right or wrong. It’s a listening. It’s an accepting space.
[0:27:20.6] AMY MOORE: I think the thing that can be really beautiful about this idea of circles is that everybody does have a voice and that conflict can arise and yet, you’re able to hold the space for it.
[0:27:34.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Because those are the most powerful. When I ask, say that question of what happens when conflict comes up. Because people are showing up intentionally and this is not about the conflict, it’s about like, “Oh, you have a different opinion than me and I’m going to –” and then I think the energy of the circle allows for that to drop in and listen to what the person is saying. Because diverging viewpoints are healthy and good.
[0:27:55.3] AMY MOORE: Imagine if Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump sat shoulder-to-shoulder with a bunch of other colleagues in a circle.
[0:28:03.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Then maybe we’d get some things done. Yeah.
[0:28:06.2] AMY MOORE: I mean, that is – it’s interesting. It’s interesting to think in the political whatever, politics, whatever. Talk about that in a different day. Or not.
[0:28:14.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or not, right? Let’s not.
[0:28:18.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think the other thing I think about with circles is prayer. Circles and holding hands, that makes me think of prayer.
[0:28:27.8] ERIN LINEHAN: That does not make me think of prayer.
[0:28:29.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I can see where you’re going.
[0:28:30.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Probably just childhood stuff, being in church and whatever.
[0:28:35.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, definitely.
[0:28:37.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah. The other, I don’t know, other episode we were talking about assertive versus aggressive. I think that circles really allow, or provide a space to be assertive. It really does invite someone to be able to speak their truth, but it also inherently, it does not steamroll. What is it? Why is that about a circle?
[0:29:02.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t know. I was listening. I did a restorative justice training when I was working in the schools.
[0:29:08.9] AMY MOORE: My stepfather-in-law is all about that.
[0:29:10.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s so good. Well, when done well it’s really good. The man who was doing the training was Native American.
[0:29:15.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s restorative justice?
[0:29:17.2] ERIN LINEHAN: If I did something to hurt someone in the community, then the community sits around a circle and talks about the impact of that. It’s not so much the punishment model, but we’re circling up.
[0:29:33.9] AMY MOORE: Then whoever committed the act or whatever, they need to figure out a way to how to work –
[0:29:39.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Restore things.
[0:29:40.1] AMY MOORE: Restore. It’s actually rupture and repair. It’s a great – Yeah.
[0:29:43.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s interesting, coming from – I worked for a judge for a long time and the hearing how he would sentence people, he was like, “Sometimes they just have to pay for the crime. It’s punitive rather than a restorative.” Anyway.
[0:29:58.5] ERIN LINEHAN: In this restorative justice, super interesting. There’s all these professionals that are learning how to do this. The guy was Native American that was leading the group. He was talking about experiences with his tribe. They said when they would do restorative justice circles, that they would talk about really heavy things, or important things, I guess. He said that sometimes, so they’d have a bowl of water in the middle of the group and that sometimes, the water would be dirty after they had that circle, because all the stuff was – all that energy was put into –
[0:30:27.6] AMY MOORE: Whoa!
[0:30:28.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I know. I was just like, “Wow!” It’s incredible.
[0:30:31.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What?
[0:30:32.8] AMY MOORE: Whoa.
[0:30:35.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: There we go.
[0:30:35.0] AMY MOORE: That’s amazing.
[0:30:35.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s amazing. I think there’s power in that.
[0:30:37.6] AMY MOORE: I think too, isn’t that – some governing bodies in the Native American culture that circles is how they govern. They sit in circles. Yeah.
[0:30:47.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I wouldn’t be surprised, but I don’t know. Yeah.
[0:30:49.9] AMY MOORE: Anyway. The circle.
[0:30:52.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. The circle is awesome.
[0:30:53.8] AMY MOORE: It’s amazing.
[0:30:55.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, just thinking about the politics thing that came up too, I think it’s interesting too that – and I don’t know if we want to go into this with this episode.
[0:31:04.2] AMY MOORE: It’s okay.
[0:31:05.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it’s interesting that with our friendship, just the people in this room, we have very different political views and we’re able to get past that. It actually didn’t even come up –
[0:31:20.0] ERIN LINEHAN: For a long time.
[0:31:20.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: For a really long time. So much so that since we were talking about other things that it wasn’t even an issue. By the time it did come up, it was like, “I don’t even – that’s not even an issue anymore.” I love the person who has the differing opinion, so much that I’m more curious about why they feel that way. I feel especially with our political situation being so incredibly polarizing, it’s hard to talk about these things – I’ve even heard of people who end friendships, or won’t talk to family members.
[0:31:58.4] AMY MOORE: Well, I’ll have to say, so when it did come up, I remember. I don’t know if you guys remember this, but it was like, gosh, if I had known – I don’t remember who said what, but it was if I knew that from the get-go, I probably wouldn’t have hung out with you.
[0:32:11.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know.
[0:32:11.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Yeah. Absolutely.
[0:32:13.9] AMY MOORE: Because it is so polarizing, but that’s also so sad.
[0:32:16.4] ERIN LINEHAN: It is sad.
[0:32:17.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know. It really makes me in the context of our podcast and connecting with new people, I mean, there’s a lot of benefit in not talking about those things with people that are new in your life and talk about –
[0:32:29.4] AMY MOORE: That’s a good point.
[0:32:30.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: – the things that –
[0:32:31.5] AMY MOORE: Really matter?
[0:32:32.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That really matter.
[0:32:33.2] AMY MOORE: Well, no. I shouldn’t say that.
[0:32:34.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, yeah. The similarities that you have, because we didn’t even go there. It wasn’t even on our radar to talk about it. Thank God, because we were able to focus on other things. I feel those are polarizing topics, like the religion and the politics. There’s a lot of truth I think in avoiding those topics.
[0:32:55.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, definitely.
[0:32:56.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Also it’s amazing, after you know the people that you can have the conversations about things, because I feel then, you can actually really listen. I value that. If someone can sit at the table and there is – I mean, people can be passionate about something, but when it switches from passion to attacking, then that is –
[0:33:13.8] AMY MOORE: Aggression.
[0:33:14.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, an aggression. Then it’s hard to listen. When you can have a conversation about different viewpoints, it’s amazing. I remember, I like to go to – they have the Mile-High TED Talks. I remember right after the election, there was these two women that were best friends and one was Republican and one was Democrat and they did their TED talk on the one voted for Trump and one voted for Hillary Clinton. They did the whole talk on that.
[0:33:37.5] AMY MOORE: Good for them. That’s so cool.
[0:33:39.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It was super powerful to how they both handled it and their reaction and how they were able to empathize with each other. We’ll link to that, because it’s a really, really good – it’s really great.
[0:33:48.6] AMY MOORE: Oh, that’s great. Really great.
[0:33:51.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Well and it’s like, I keep coming back to this idea of if all these people that I love, truly to my core love, feel differently about this humongous thing happening in our world, like what am I missing? Am I missing something? It really makes me have an open mind. I love these people for these different reasons, but they’re seeing something that’s so big so differently. It makes me come at it from a place of open-minded and wanting to learn more about that perspective. Also, I’m really glad that we didn’t talk about that stuff early on.
[0:34:31.2] AMY MOORE: Ditto. I’d say that it’s a great time, or a great place to segue into what Sadie was saying about Dandapani and which there is no greater sign of love and respect than giving them undivided love and attention. I think it’s just undivided attention. Basically, if you are able to hold the space to listen –
[0:35:03.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s what holding space is. That call is what holding space is. Yeah.
[0:35:04.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. If you’re able to listen openly and whatever, everything Erin said, then there is no –
[0:35:14.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What she said.
[0:35:15.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, exactly. There is no greater sign of love and respect. It’s like what you were just saying Anna, about the difference of opinions. If you’re able to really hear someone and try to understand where they’re coming from, or their perspective, what an enormous showing of love and respect.
[0:35:41.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It feels so good if someone treats you like you’re the only person in the room, it is super powerful.
[0:35:46.7] AMY MOORE: So good.
[0:35:48.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s the best feeling.
[0:35:49.7] AMY MOORE: The best.
[0:35:51.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, “Oh, they think I’m really special.”
[0:35:53.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, it is.
[0:35:53.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Well, because it doesn’t happen very often now, because people are distracted. Paying attention and being present, that’s why presence is a superpower, because you can fully hold the space and – undivided attention with someone, that is – it’s amazing. Whether it’s a stranger, or it’s your friend, or whoever it is, but people feel valued. If you can make people feel they matter not in a manipulative way, but because it’s another human being, it’s amazing.
[0:36:21.3] AMY MOORE: Well and they matter because they exist.
[0:36:24.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, that’s it.
[0:36:26.5] AMY MOORE: They matter, because they’re talking and you are going to listen with undivided attention. I have to say, kids, I think today and I think in general so much of our history and all of that, kids were not given undivided attention, or not –
[0:36:46.0] ERIN LINEHAN: To seem not heard.
[0:36:47.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah, seem not heard. Then I think now with devices and with just easily distracted adults, kids so often don’t have someone’s undivided attention. What a gift when they do. That’s my plug for kids.
[0:37:05.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I was in the grocery store and I have issues with –
[0:37:09.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Big fan.
[0:37:10.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Big fan. I was in the grocery store –
[0:37:11.8] AMY MOORE: Big fan of those.
[0:37:13.3] ERIN LINEHAN: – I get really irritated if there’s a big, long line and people don’t help bag the groceries.
[0:37:18.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. What’s up with that?
[0:37:19.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t know. I was so pissed at this woman. I was trying to not be judgy, but I was being real super judgy. She was on, so the checker is like – she has a shit ton of stuff and the checker was slow, because there was all this stuff. This kid is standing there being bored in the checkout line and then the mom is just on the phone the entire time, like intently on her phone and then got pissed at the bagger for making it too heavy. I was just like, “What is happening?” I’m like, “That woman must have had a real rough day that this is what is happening.”
[0:37:49.7] AMY MOORE: That’s very kind of you.
[0:37:52.3] ERIN LINEHAN: The kid, point being with the kid, he was just off in la-la land, because she was not paying attention to the grocery line, she was immersed in her phone. Then when she got pissed at the checker, I was about to step in and say something, but I just took a deep breath.
[0:38:05.8] AMY MOORE: Take your time. Pause.
[0:38:07.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I had an annoying situation at the grocery store too, since we’re talking about grocery stores now.
[0:38:11.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, yeah. Let’s hear it.
[0:38:13.6] AMY MOORE: Wait, why don’t people bag their own – I frankly and you all know, this probably won’t be very surprising. I love bagging my own groceries, because then I can organize them.
[0:38:22.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I love the way they organize them. They must have a training on that.
[0:38:25.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, definitely. Light on bottom.
[0:38:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m a fast bagger.
[0:38:28.6] AMY MOORE: I love bagging my own groceries.
[0:38:30.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m a fast bagger.
[0:38:31.8] AMY MOORE: The cashier is always like, “Thank you.” They’re always surprised. Don’t more people do this?
[0:38:37.8] ERIN LINEHAN: When people – they just stand there and just – then there’s all these people and there’s a shit ton of things like, “What are you doing?”
[0:38:44.0] AMY MOORE: That should be our nugget at the end of this. Bag your own groceries.
[0:38:49.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Back to my super remitting story about the grocery store. I was getting ready to – I had two things. I was in the line getting ready to go out and this lady in front of me forgot something. The guy let her go back. The checker let her go and grab it. I was in a rush of course, always. He let her go grab it and it was an elderly lady. It took so long and he didn’t even make eye contact. He didn’t say, “Oh, sorry,” or, “I’ll get you on another register.” He just let her do it. It was just holy shit. Half an hour later, she comes back with her thing. I’m like, “She’s comparing prices.” I was so annoyed.
[0:39:37.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Comparing prices.
[0:39:38.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “What is going on right now?” To not even acknowledge like, “Hey, this is an inconvenience for you.”
[0:39:45.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. A little communication would’ve helped with that.
[0:39:47.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Little acknowledgment goes a long way. Like, “Hey, thank you for your patience.”
[0:39:53.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It would’ve made all the difference in that situation of I know this is annoying.
[0:39:58.1] AMY MOORE: Or just looking at you in the eyes and being like, “Sorry.”
[0:40:01.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. He acted like I was not even in existence in the situation.
[0:40:05.1] ERIN LINEHAN: That has more to do with him.
[0:40:06.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was like, “What the hell is it?”
[0:40:07.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s more to do with him.
[0:40:08.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “What is happening?” It was a similar thing like, “What in the world?”
[0:40:13.3] ERIN LINEHAN: In those situations –
[0:40:14.4] AMY MOORE: Go to another line.
[0:40:15.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I totally –
[0:40:16.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, go to another line.
[0:40:18.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I would’ve, but –
[0:40:20.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I was thinking about he didn’t acknowledge you, didn’t apologize, didn’t whatever. In those situations, I think if someone told me that if we can frame those in the positive, like if he would’ve said, “Thank you,” instead of, “Sorry that you’re waiting,” or whatever. If he would’ve switched it and been – or acknowledge you at all and would’ve said, “Thank you for your patience,” then it switches the whole energy of the thing. I think that is the tip that we could use to.
[0:40:41.5] AMY MOORE: Bag your groceries and –
[0:40:43.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Switch to the positive. If you are late like, “Thank you for your patience,” instead of saying, “Sorry,” because that sets up the whole tone. You just –
[0:40:51.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, also women say sorry way too much.
[0:40:54.0] AMY MOORE: Way too much. Way too much.
[0:40:55.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, “Thank you for –”
[0:40:56.7] AMY MOORE: That is a great – I love that.
[0:40:58.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sorry, not sorry.
[0:41:00.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I hate that phrase, just so you know.
[0:41:02.5] AMY MOORE: Sorry, not sorry?
[0:41:03.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry, not sorry.
[0:41:05.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, you’re just giving me a good day.
[0:41:07.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry for being thin. Oh, my God.
[0:41:11.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sorry, not sorry.
[0:41:12.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry, not sorry. Get out of here. Okay.
[0:41:17.1] AMY MOORE: It’s that voice.
[0:41:18.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I love it. Okay. I want to talk about the – did you have more?
[0:41:21.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Mm-mm.
[0:41:22.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. The practice, so which Sadie talked a lot about the practice. Remembering which I think is so good, because that denotes that we all know how to be better. Maybe that sometimes we don’t know, but when we can remember, because sure, I can be in a really good place where I’m meditating right now and I’m eating well and I’m running and I feel really good and sometimes then I forget and those things go out the window. Then we can remember and feel better, and so I think the concept of that was really, really valuable.
[0:41:55.4] AMY MOORE: Super powerful.
[0:41:56.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, of just –
[0:41:58.3] AMY MOORE: You can be so much more gentle with yourself. Wait, I have a question though for you, because you have a big presence on social media, Anna. Do you find yourself – like I wonder if someone would look at your social media and think the same thing.
[0:42:11.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was wondering that as I was talking. I’m like, “Well, do I talk about the struggle too?”
[0:42:18.1] AMY MOORE: Because it’s hard. You don’t want to – I would imagine.
[0:42:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: You didn’t talk about that when you were having that. You posted that one video of maybe a year ago of the Starbucks line?
[0:42:25.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, in December.
[0:42:26.3] ERIN LINEHAN: In December.
[0:42:26.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That was really interesting, because yeah, I feel there’s a big push, especially on Instagram, where there’s a lot of perfectionism and this curated life idea. Now there’s this idea of showing real life, or showing the struggle, or showing the hard moments in an effort to have – I say it as wanting to have that transparency of this is not the reality of the situation. There is this underbelly of the truth of like, life is hard sometimes and it’s a struggle.
I find myself wanting to put this certain pitcher out there, mainly because it’s – I think the drive with that is to stay on brand for a lot of people, or companies. I had this really touching situation in a Starbucks line actually. I’ll just sit, talk about it really, really quick. I was in a horrible place, different life changes happening in December. I was waiting to go into the Starbucks drive-through line, and this lady came from the opposite direction and went right in front of me. I was like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I was here first.” I honked and was like, “Hey,” tried to get her attention like, “Hey, by the way. No, no, no. I am here first.” Maybe you didn’t notice I was right here, so I’m going to go ahead and go. To Wanda.
Back up. I’m going. She’s like, “No, no, no.” This was all motioning through window too. Perfect communication system. Then she ends up going in front of me and I’m like, “This bitch. What the fuck is she doing?” I honked and I flip her off.
[0:44:12.5] AMY MOORE: Anna is doing a lot of hand gestures a lot.
[0:44:15.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then it was super awkward, because I had to sit behind her in the car. Then like, “Well, here we are just moving out.”
[0:44:21.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I can’t go anywhere.
[0:44:22.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “Uh!” That makes it even worse, right? Then I get up to the line and the barista person gave me my drink and was like, “The person in front of you paid for this, because she thinks she might have been mad at her.” I was like –
[0:44:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I don’t know how she’d know that.
[0:44:42.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was actually really mad at her and now I feel like an asshole. It was just such a touching thing, because she really responded with kindness when I flipped her off and was a total bitch. It just made me feel a total jerk. I posted about that right after I was so touched, because she had no idea. It was such a simple thing that had a really big impact on, because I was going through a hard time. It was really, really touching.
[0:45:15.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Remembering. It’s a remembering.
[0:45:16.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s all about things, Erin. Yeah, so it’s all about remembering that those moments aren’t – no one has a perfect life. We all are struggling. We have no idea what anyone is going through.
[0:45:28.2] AMY MOORE: No matter what’s on Instagram.
[0:45:30.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, in that moment, it’s like, I think people were really – I had a ton of comments about that like, “Wow, what?”
[0:45:39.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m in between clients and I watched this video and I’m like, “What?!” Like, “Anna, are you okay? What’s happening?”
[0:45:45.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I had all sorts of text. It was like, I’m just crying.
[0:45:51.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Because we saw you that morning, because it was a coffee morning.
[0:45:53.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then things are fine.
[0:45:56.8] ERIN LINEHAN: That things are great and I’m like –
[0:45:57.1] AMY MOORE: That’s right. Yes.
[0:45:58.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, what happened between –
[0:45:59.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Are you okay?
[0:46:00.1] ERIN LINEHAN: – in the last two hours?
[0:46:02.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. We have people just don’t – It took people by surprise.
[0:46:05.8] AMY MOORE: It’s cool. You were totally authentic and you expressed and then the –
[0:46:10.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I think the day-to-day, but also – I’ll just be real quick and maybe get into that. The remembering thing is so important, because I think when we’re struggling or going through bad times, it’s sometimes we can feel we’re a ship out to sea and then there’s no land and we can’t figure out where to go. I remember that I was in a relationship probably at least 10 years ago and I’m like, “This does not feel right and something feels bad about lots of things were going on in my life.”
I went to my – the person I was in the relationship with didn’t come to the wedding. I went to a wedding reception of my friends from college and we were dancing and having so much fun. Then afterwards I’m like, “Oh, this is who I am.” Here I am. Then we broke up. Because I was like, “Oh, this is not happening in this relationship at all.” Then I came back and I was like, “Oh, I feel liberated and here I am.” Then when you get that, I think that that is a sacred message of listen to that, because there’s a reason why this is happening. When you feel in alignment, or you get yourself back, what has just happened and it’s important to pay attention to. Yeah.
[0:47:12.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think the thing that I appreciate the most about the remembering is just the permission that gives me to be gentle on myself. I think even in our podcast and the nuggets, or all these things we talk about, even for us, they’re not happening all the time. I make it so funny –
[0:47:33.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Let’s just make that clear.
[0:47:35.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think it’s so funny that we’ve gotten a little bit oppressed about how we give advice.
[0:47:41.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.”
[0:47:42.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Advice, that’s a really strong word. It’s like, “Oooh. I don’t think I’m in that position,” right?
[0:47:49.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You brought me in the same days –
[0:47:51.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Like, “Oh, God.”
[0:47:52.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think even to think about the practice of it all now it’s – even someone like Sadie, who is a public figure, or –
[0:48:04.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, she is.
[0:48:05.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. It’s like, even when we were talking to her, she kept saying this is just a practice. I feel the same like, “Oh, my gosh. I can say all this stuff and all these great ideas,” and then maybe I totally forget them all. At least, I have my community to remind me, or I have the quote that, “Oh, yeah. Let’s go back to that.” Or I hear something.
[0:48:38.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Makes things way more gentle.
[0:48:39.6] AMY MOORE: It really does. It really doesn’t.
[0:48:41.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well then, it’s like making space for life and for the reality of the situation. Every week, I do a live VIP call with my spending faster VIPs. I always tell them like, “I need these calls just as much as you. Sure I’m the host, but I need to be reminded.” It’s that constant remembering of the constant remembering. I really appreciated what Sadie said about this is a practice and it’s about remembering, because she is so successful in such a public role, that it’s even her being so hugely successful.
[0:49:25.3] AMY MOORE: Human.
[0:49:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, it is very human. It’s very relatable.
[0:49:28.6] AMY MOORE: It’s so beautiful. I also think this whole idea all comes down to the community that you surround yourself with. I think if you have a community, or friends, or some connections out there who can be that reminder, or who can help in this process of being humans and living these lives that we’re all living, I think it’s so important. It just makes me want to read this one quote. This is from Health and Resources and Services Administration. The title of the article is The Loneliness Epidemic.
Here’s what the science says, “As a force in shaping our health, medical care pales in comparison with the circumstances of the communities in which we live. Few aspects of community are more powerful than is the degree of connectedness and social support for individuals.” To me, I mean, that’s just the science behind the importance of community, connection, dare we throw in there circles.
[0:50:37.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, it’s good.
[0:50:38.8] AMY MOORE: I think we are –
[0:50:42.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Are we going there?
[0:50:44.0] AMY MOORE: We are. It’s like an experiment.
[0:50:48.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I think that’s important to say about the loneliness thing, because I was listening to – do you know who Dean Ornish is? Dr. Dean Ornish. I think he’s a cardiologist, but he’s a plant-based guy. He was talking about him and it says, so Ann and Dean Ornish, they did a that interview on Super Soul Sunday. Of course I listen to that all the time. They were talking about it, so he was talking about the loneliness thing and that loneliness kills more people than heart disease does.
In his things to be healthy, is you eat mostly a plant-based diet and love was equally as important as – I couldn’t remember what the other two were, so that’d be helpful if I could, but I can’t in this moment. Love and finding connection with people was in the pillar of things. I mean, that is really, really, really important.
[0:51:30.3] AMY MOORE: I have another article here. This one, there’s a campaign to end loneliness in the UK.
[0:51:36.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s amazing.
[0:51:37.6] ERIN LINEHAN: They have a minister of loneliness.
[0:51:39.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What the heck? That’s super, super progressive and just what the heck, they know it then.
[0:51:44.5] AMY MOORE: Telling. It’s also super sad, but obviously they had to do something, because loneliness is such an issue. Frankly, it’s not just the UK.
[0:51:51.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s amazing.
[0:51:53.6] AMY MOORE: I mean, it’s everywhere, right?
[0:51:54.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s the UK that’s actually done something official about it. Right. That’s amazing.
[0:51:58.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. There might be. Maybe it’s come over to the US. I don’t know, but we’ll have to look into that.
[0:52:02.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I hadn’t found anything about that.
[0:52:04.0] AMY MOORE: Either way, there is this loneliness and physical health. This just confirms what you were just saying, Erin. The statistic and this is a quote, says, “Loneliness increases the likelihood of mortality by 26%.” Also, there was something –
[0:52:19.9] ERIN LINEHAN: A quarter, which is crazy.
[0:52:21.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah. It’s so sad. I think that covers it ladies.
[0:52:27.8] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s why we’re here, because of that.
[0:52:29.6] AMY MOORE: Exactly. The two nuggets we have for you today.
[0:52:33.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bag your own groceries.
[0:52:34.0] AMY MOORE: Bag your own groceries.
[0:52:36.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Please. Please, okay? Bag your own groceries. The other nugget is that clearly –
[0:52:42.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re changing lives here.
[0:52:44.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Changing lives.
[0:52:45.9] AMY MOORE: Awesome.
[0:52:46.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Nugget is when you are in a toll lane and you’re not – I’ll get over that. That’s all right.
[0:52:52.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, finish it. I want to hear.
[0:52:55.9] AMY MOORE: Oh, I know. I know what you’re going to say.
[0:52:57.4] ERIN LINEHAN: These are the two things. When you’re in the toll lane, if you pay for the toll, especially if you live in the Denver area and you’re on Highway 36 and I am driving in front of you, if you’re in the toll lane, expressway and you’re paying for it, it doesn’t mean that you can choose to go whatever speed limit you want. It just means I’m paying not to sit in traffic. A little nugget for the day.
[0:53:19.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You want people to speed up?
[0:53:21.3] ERIN LINEHAN: No. I want people –
[0:53:22.7] AMY MOORE: She wants them to get off her ass.
[0:53:24.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Thank you.
[0:53:25.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, you’re the one going slow.
[0:53:27.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m not going slow. It’s like seven over, okay? Seven over intentionally, because I think they’re probably not going to pull me over. It’s seven over. Or if I see a cop, I’d slow down.
[0:53:35.5] AMY MOORE: Seven over.
[0:53:36.9] ERIN LINEHAN: 72. Thank you. I follow the rules. Okay. Okay, second point.
[0:53:42.9] AMY MOORE: I guess, this is our third, because your nugget.
[0:53:46.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I just needed to rant, because that’s the two thing that piss me off on – the two things that piss me off are the grocery store, or the bagger in the grocery store I’m like, I can tell where I am. It’s my litmus test, because I’m like, okay. Stop talking. That’s what Amy says. Get to the freaking point, Erin.
[0:54:01.1] AMY MOORE: Get on. We’re back here.
[0:54:03.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Then the third point, or second, I guess, is that if you are late, or you do something that’s – or you don’t respond to an e-mail or whatever, and so instead of saying sorry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Say, “Thank you for your patience.” Switch it to the positive, whatever that thing is.
[0:54:21.4] AMY MOORE: Love it.
[0:54:21.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I also think it’s important, because I have been doing that thank you for your patience thing since I read about it a while ago. I’ve been doing that and then after doing it for quite a while, I switched it to say sorry, because I just felt – it feels weird to just always say thank you.
[0:54:39.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I think it’s helpful.
[0:54:41.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I run late often. What are you going to say?
[0:54:43.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Because you’re not doing anything to fix it.
[0:54:45.6] AMY MOORE: The same thing. You say, “Thank you for your patience,” every time Anna is late. Every day we would see Anna she’d be like, “Thank you for your patience. Thank you for your patience.” Then it be like –
[0:54:56.0] ERIN LINEHAN: If I can leave earlier, great.
[0:54:59.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Are we fixing that?
[0:55:00.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Well yeah, exactly. If you’re not going to make any attempt to fix it and say, this is just say sorry, but not sorry.
[0:55:08.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I messed up.
[0:55:10.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. All right.
[0:55:11.9] AMY MOORE: We’re going to cut it here.
[0:55:14.2] ERIN LINEHAN: To the station.
[0:55:15.2] AMY MOORE: Thank you everybody for listening.
[0:55:18.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Bye-bye.
[0:55:19.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bye.
[0:55:21.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. We talk about connection. That’s what our deal is here. We have a six-step roadmap for instant connection. You can get that at connectionroadmap.com. It will give you the hook-up on what to do to get instantly connected with people in this world.
Amy Moore: Remember to go to MyShapa.com and use the code LESSALONE for a FREE Shapa Scale (!!!) PLUS get FREE shipping when you sign up for a 12-month subscription to their app!
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:55:42.8] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com. If you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.