EP14: Things That Are Bigger Than Us

EP14: Things That Are Bigger Than Us - Less Alone Podcast


Holy cow! This is a big one! We’ve got: things to talk to your therapist about, The Nun With 5 Kids™️, confessions and clean slates, wall-to-wall velvet-soft carpet, How to Skip Church (without getting busted!), and the Holy Trinity of ear piercings. Plus: our connection (and disconnection) to religion, spirituality and things WAY bigger than us like expert-level guilt trips. 

We talk about all this and more so be sure to tune in! 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Intro and Outro Music Credit: Night Owl by Broke for Free from the Album Directionless EP (Creative Commons License)

P.S. Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!



[0:00:01.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.

[0:00:06.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.

[0:00:06.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.


[0:00:15.3] AMY MOORE: Hey.

[0:00:16.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hey everybody.

[0:00:18.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Give another clap, Amy. 

[0:00:19.3] AMY MOORE: You like that?

[0:00:21.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just clap corner?

[0:00:22.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, she’s so stoked about life.

[0:00:28.0] AMY MOORE: Life is good.

[0:00:28.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I like when you’re singing.

[0:00:30.4] AMY MOORE: Life is good today.

[0:00:31.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hell yeah.

[0:00:32.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Date of time, it’s a good one.

[0:00:33.9] AMY MOORE: We’re taking it.

[0:00:34.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, totally.

[0:00:38.1] AMY MOORE: Welcome back, here we are.

[0:00:39.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:00:39.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Here we are. Episode five.

[0:00:41.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:00:42.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s crazy.

[0:00:42.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is a big one.

[0:00:49.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a big one.

[0:00:49.2] AMY MOORE: Okay listeners, how many of you have noticed how many times we say – 

[0:00:54.5] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a big one.

[0:00:55.4] AMY MOORE: Yes, because we sure have. 

[0:00:58.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like there it is again. It’s almost like a twitch or a tick, you know? I think we all like doing this podcast and stuff, I’ve really noticed how I have these verbal ticks and like, it’s like, what? I said holy cow again. Really? That’s my go to? Holy cow.

[0:01:17.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:01:18.6] AMY MOORE: I’ve heard myself have some really strange laughter.

[0:01:24.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what the good news is? You’re literally the only one who is probably noticing that.

[0:01:29.3] AMY MOORE: I hope so.

[0:01:30.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because it’s like a – I feel like we’re at least for myself like the biggest critic.

[0:01:34.9] AMY MOORE: Yes.

[0:01:35.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like literally nobody else is like noticing. If they are, whatever. Talk to your therapist about it if it bothers you, that’s like my new go to. You’re going to have to talk to your therapist about it.

[0:01:49.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I bet people love to hear that.

[0:01:51.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Mom, that’s something – 

[0:01:56.0] ERIN LINEHAN: You should talk to your therapist about.

[0:01:59.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Super understanding.

[0:02:01.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Anna has had an increase of eye rolls in her life.

[0:02:04.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah, right. Well, we, instead of being critical, we’re going to focus on some real positivity coming at us.

[0:02:12.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:02:13.7] AMY MOORE: We’ve got a great review this morning.

[0:02:16.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Right, look at that transition. You’re like pro.

[0:02:21.2] AMY MOORE: Thank you.

[0:02:21.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Your segues are like spot on.

[0:02:24.7] AMY MOORE: I’m working on them.

[0:02:25.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Did you Google this? How to do segues because it’s like that good.

[0:02:29.3] AMY MOORE: No, but I do think about it a lot.

[0:02:31.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, there you go.

[0:02:32.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Amy daydreams about segues.

[0:02:36.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, you’re all – 

[0:02:37.3] AMY MOORE: That’s about as exciting my life is, yup.

[0:02:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Segway’s that people used to drive? Popped in my head.

[0:02:43.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How come – 

[0:02:44.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Made me thinking about the Segway.

[0:02:46.2] AMY MOORE: On this segue?

[0:02:49.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Driving around the mall.

[0:02:50.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How are those things like literally the dorkiest things ever?

[0:02:53.9] AMY MOORE: I don’t know but you can still take Segway tours in a lot of different cities.

[0:02:57.8] ERIN LINEHAN: For real?

[0:02:58.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I always think, they just seem like the ultimate dorkiness.

[0:03:02.4] AMY MOORE: Agreed.

[0:03:02.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, I’ve never been on one, I’m sure I would thoroughly enjoy it.

[0:03:07.0] AMY MOORE: To each his own.

[0:03:09.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: But like, not me. I’m not a dork like that.

[0:03:18.3] AMY MOORE: Actually. I would go on a Segway tour.

[0:03:21.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just what they don’t, you know I would. It makes me think of like – I think because the posture is so perfect and they have the helmets and they’re just like scooting along in a row, it just like is the ultimate – do you know what I’m saying? It’s like they’re like little ducks in a row.

[0:03:38.9] AMY MOORE: There’s a reason that that mall cop, wasn’t there mall cop movie and then – 

[0:03:43.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Paul Blart.

[0:03:44.7] AMY MOORE: He rode a Segway in a mall, right? 

[0:03:48.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s at the mall, yeah. I mean. Maybe we don’t want to do that in the mall. But, around town, there you go. Now there are scooters, bikes.

[0:03:57.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Scooters, they’re fun.

[0:03:59.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah, but I think there’s a ton of accidents happening and now there’s a big – 

[0:04:03.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what I saw?

[0:04:05.1] AMY MOORE: There’s a big war between bikes and scooters and like who has the right of way in the bike lanes. I read it in some local newspaper.

[0:04:16.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think there’s a ton of accidents on those scooters because a lot of people are wasted when they’re on the scooters.

[0:04:21.4] AMY MOORE: You know what I think? The slightest little bump or a hole in the street can send you flying. My kids could tell you a real good story about that happening to me just two years ago. I flew, I was going so fast on this scooter, I was kind of racing.

[0:04:38.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I vaguely remember that. You were racing and being competitive?

[0:04:42.7] AMY MOORE: Imagine that. I will win. But I was going so fast on the scooter and hit a significant hole in the sidewalk, catapulted.

[0:04:55.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wow.

[0:04:56.6] AMY MOORE: It came to a dead stop and I did not.

[0:05:01.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what I’ve been seeing?

[0:05:01.8] AMY MOORE: And then I had to pretend like it didn’t really hurt. I’m so tough. 

[0:05:08.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I live on this busy street. Well, it’s like a busy neighborhood street with bus lines and lots of bike traffic and just people all the time moving in front of our house and there, I have seen multiple times where the people on these scooters like and their dogs running in one day, I saw this twice within half an hour. At the exact same spot of these two separate guys, like running their dogs with the scooter, you know what I’m saying? They both fell off the scooter at the same spot.

[0:05:46.1] AMY MOORE: That is like the type of humor for me, I absolutely love which is not very kind. Total slapstick but honestly, you could record that stuff, you just setup a camera and have – I mean, if it’s especially fits in this same spot. So funny.

[0:06:05.4] ERIN LINEHAN: There’s this thing on Instagram called the Jerry of the day and it is like a lot of ski incidents.

[0:06:14.3] AMY MOORE: I got to watch this.

[0:06:15.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It is so – 

[0:06:16.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I did not know you like slapsticks.

[0:06:18.5] AMY MOORE: Me? Okay, truth be told, I have watched a number of people just for whatever reason throughout my life, run at full speed into a sliding glass door. 

[0:06:34.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I have seen that.

[0:06:36.1] AMY MOORE: I have tried so hard to maintain like composure. I cannot, I can’t. I don’t know, I think some of that is when people trip or when I trip or I mean, I just can’t help myself. It’s like I have a very childish sense of humor. What you going to do?

[0:06:56.1] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re going to laugh at them?

[0:06:57.3] AMY MOORE: You know what else we’re going to? We’re going to read this review.

[0:06:59.3] AMY MOORE: Year. Wow.

[0:07:03.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re just talking about – 

[0:07:04.5] ERIN LINEHAN: How are we going to get back to that?

[0:07:05.3] AMY MOORE: Here we go.

[0:07:05.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I totally forgot about it.

[0:07:07.6] AMY MOORE: Now I’m going to say stop, here we go. This is from the air project. Thank you so much, the air project for leaving this review and the title of it is “the chemistry”, it’s five stars and it says, “These women have amazing chemistry. It felt like I was hanging out with my friends without having to hang out with my friends. Which is exactly what I want to do sometimes. LOL. I’m for sure going to stay subscribed.”

[0:07:43.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I love that.

[0:07:44.2] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s awesome.

[0:07:45.6] AMY MOORE: My gosh, the air project.

[0:07:47.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, the air project. High fives.

[0:07:48.3] AMY MOORE: That is hilarious.

[0:07:51.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Feel free to call us. Even if you don’t want to, you might want to sometimes.

[0:07:56.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, on the voice mail.

[0:07:57.6] AMY MOORE: Yup.

[0:07:58.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do you have that number because I was not prepared for you to say that.

[0:08:02.9] AMY MOORE: I know.

[0:08:03.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I could get it. Hold on. 

[0:08:04.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay.

[0:08:06.4] AMY MOORE: Right now, we’re going to give it out again? It’s all over our website.

[0:08:10.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that’s true.

[0:08:11.4] ERIN LINEHAN: The number is 775-591-8860.

[0:08:18.8] AMY MOORE: So professional. Have you been practicing?

[0:08:23.1] ERIN LINEHAN: No, not like Amy.

[0:08:24.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wow, because that was really good.

[0:08:27.1] AMY MOORE: That was really good.

[0:08:28.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:08:28.4] AMY MOORE: Way to go. You’ve got another career coming your way, Erin.

[0:08:32.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay, come on.

[0:08:33.4] AMY MOOREY MOORE: Okay.

[0:08:34.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.

[0:08:35.9] AMY MOORE: Okay.

[0:08:37.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then the next question, yes Moorea. Moorea Seal, we asked her, would you rather be a centaur or a mermaid? Amy was very enthusiastic about this.

[0:08:48.7] AMY MOORE: I was.

[0:08:49.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She’s like, hands down, centaur. Okay, which is so crazy to me because I was like hands down mermaid.

[0:08:56.5] AMY MOORE: Erin?

[0:09:02.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t know. I don’t think I ever wanted to be either.

[0:09:04.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Gosh. No, want to be a centaur with how much you love to run.

[0:09:11.3] AMY MOORE: Gosh, that’s a really good point.

[0:09:13.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, you could run really fast.

[0:09:15.1] ERIN LINEHAN: What do you got for me? Why would I want to be a mermaid, Anna?

[0:09:17.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Also, centaurs are very strong.

[0:09:19.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay, that’s good. 

[0:09:20.7] AMY MOORE: That’s a good point.

[0:09:22.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m going – 

[0:09:22.5] AMY MOORE: Mermaids, you’re stuck under water.

[0:09:24.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: But there’s a whole world under there.

[0:09:26.5] AMY MOORE: It’s a whole new world.

[0:09:29.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Didn’t anybody else, like I was literally a mermaid when I was a kid. I mean, final answer, centaur.

[0:09:39.7] AMY MOORE: More clapping for this episode.

[0:09:41.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Wow.

[0:09:42.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Clapping corner.

[0:09:44.1] AMY MOORE: It’s a good one. Who knows where this questions will lead us but I would say, maybe we’ll ask the centaur-mermaid question again or maybe we’ll ask something completely random.

[0:09:53.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: There are so many good questions.

[0:09:55.0] ERIN LINEHAN: If you have questions that you want us to ask.

[0:09:57.7] AMY MOORE: Yes.

[0:09:58.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Random ones, send them in on any of the social media platforms or you can call and ask and we can play it for the person.

[0:10:05.9] AMY MOORE: We have some interviews coming up with business owners, people in charge of kid projects, we have episodes with someone from Bachelor Nation.

[0:10:24.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just the most beloved bachelor of all time.

[0:10:27.2] AMY MOORE: We have authors coming on. Think about your questions that maybe you want us to ask them.

[0:10:34.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, also, if there’s anyone you want us to interview, let us know so like, what we’re doing is we’re looking for people that have interesting angles on connection in some way, shape or form.

[0:10:46.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Year, that’s a great idea.

[0:10:48.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:10:48.4] AMY MOORE: Send in your dream peeps, we got our list so we’d love to add yours to our – 

[0:10:54.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re just going to keep pestering these MOFOs until they’re on. We’re like, hello Brené Brown? Hi, it’s us again. We still want to interview you. Hey Oprah, what’s up? 

[0:11:04.5] AMY MOORE: All right, so, we had an amazing guest, speaking of guests, on our last episode and.

[0:11:13.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Moorea Seal.

[0:11:15.1] AMY MOORE: Moorea Seal.

[0:11:16.7] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s great.

[0:11:16.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Mariaseal.com That was really such another great story and also to see how her, I would say like her childhood really led to her achievement. Then the good she’s doing for the world and just like what an awesome array of tools in those – in the 52 List series.

[0:11:43.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s so cool because I had like one idea about why Ii wanted her to be on the show.

[0:11:48.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:11:48.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then it totally flipped it. It was like, wait, she’s so much more interesting than I even realized and like, so incredibly insightful and just nugget Ville.

[0:12:01.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, nuggets, insightful nuggets all over.

[0:12:05.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You can tell she’s done a lot of work on herself and it was just wonderful to be able to connect with her. You know, like yeah. We hope you all found it as awesome as we did. We’re going to talk about – 

[0:12:16.5] AMY MOORE: And, we hope that you all support Maria just you know?

[0:12:22.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Because she’s awesome.

[0:12:22.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, she’s small owned business like – 

[0:12:27.4] AMY MOORE: Yes, exactly. If you’re in Seattle, check out that beautiful store front.

[0:12:32.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so beautiful.

[0:12:33.2] AMY MOORE: My gosh, it’s awesome. With that, we found a bunch of really interesting topics related to connection from our conversation with her and you know, one of them is religion, you know, what’s our own connection to religion and then we just have a list of things. I think we’ll probably just kind of free flow this conversation and – 

[0:12:56.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Free balling it.

[0:12:57.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Keep going.

[0:12:58.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yup, free balling it.

[0:13:01.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I did that just for you.

[0:13:03.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I can let that slide.

[0:13:05.5] AMY MOORE: No, that’s good.

[0:13:07.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know I just say things to like – 

[0:13:09.8] ERIN LINEHAN: We do, yes. We have it recorded.

[0:13:13.5] AMY MOORE: Yes. What about it? Erin, what about you? Religion and maybe like childhood or like how are you raised?

[0:13:23.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I grew up and my mother was actually going to be – I’m the youngest of five, talked about before and my mother at some point, she was in the convent and I don’t know if she met my dad while she was in the convent or afterwards. Then, she’s clearly not a nun because she had five kids. There’s that.

[0:13:42.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The nun with five kids.

[0:13:44.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry, the nun with five kids. That’s a big ass scandal.

[0:13:47.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Awkward. Can you become a nun like after you have kids?

[0:13:53.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I think – I bet.

[0:13:54.3] AMY MOORE: If you’re like an older – you know, say you had grown children.

[0:13:58.2] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good question. My mother would know the answer to that.

[0:14:01.6] AMY MOORE: We got to ask your mom.

[0:14:03.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I’ll ask her. We grew up and religion was really – the catholic church was super important to my mom growing up and like pivotal to her like anchoring her. I went to catholic elementary school, middle through high school wasn’t the one I went to catholic college and it was very much – I mean, we were at church every week all the very catholic household.

Then, after I graduated from college, I volunteered with the Vincent Volunteers in England and so I lived in Liverpool for a year and so we lived in a community of three people. It was me, a kid from England.

[0:14:40.0] AMY MOORE: Huge commute. 

[0:14:41.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Hold on, my community was – you didn’t let me finish.

[0:14:46.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The war is coming in thee MR.

[0:14:52.3] AMY MOORE: Sorry.

[0:14:52.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I lived with a kid from England, I lived with someone from Slovakia, myself and then there was four other houses with three or four members of the community.

[0:15:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay.

[0:15:03.4] AMY MOORE: Wait, was the community a church?

[0:15:05.7] ERIN LINEHAN: No, we lived in the same house and then everyone would live in different cities. We were in Liverpool, there was one in Manchester, one in Birkenhead which is across the river from Liverpool and then one in London. 

We would come together like once a month to do these trips and so I remember there was one – I didn’t know where I stood with religious stuff but then there was one experience that I had and so it was a faith like weekend where we went to see all these different types of faith and so we met in Manchester and it was – we went to a catholic church obviously and then we went to a Buddhist temple.

We went to a Jewish temple, we went to a mosque and we went to a seek temple or a synagogue, not a temple, sorry for the – Jewish. It was super interesting because it was right when I don’t know what the man’s name was, but it was the Hamas leader that had been assassinated and he was the leader that was in a wheelchair.

There was a huge outside – the synagogue, there was a massive riot of things and so I remember going into that, one of the members of the community was from Indonesia which is a highly populated Muslim country and they almost didn’t let her in to the service because they were scared about what was happening outside.

It’s really – I’d never been that upfront with everything but it was an amazing experience to be welcomed into every single one of the communities and to find out like from the people that are worshiping in those ways, it’s like what that was like. Then, we processed afterwards and the thing I got out of it was like processing in our larger group. 

There’s like 15 of us, maybe 20 of us and so the woman that was leading, she says to me, she’s like well, what did you all learn from the trip? I was like, this is amazing, I love to see – I’m super interested in what kind of faiths people have and what they do to celebrate that. I was like, I learned that I think everyone’s kind of doing the same thing and she told me that I was wrong.

Showed me that I was wrong and that pretty much like the catholic way was the only way and so that was like very defining moment for me because I don’t believe that. I think everyone can express that in whatever way feels good for them. Then I just went on kind of like a journey of what does this all mean and then it just wasn’t lining up and it wasn’t fitting. Then, what happened?

Then at some point, I stopped going to church, I talked to my mom this week and she was like, have had some health issues so she hasn’t gone to church in eight weeks and I was like, well, I don’t think I’ve been in church in eight years and she was like, well I don’t even understand that still. I’m like okay, well, we’re not getting into this.

Then I have found that being spiritually connected in some sort of way is super important to me and I will often say, I wish that I had a faith community that felt good and that felt right, not even good, like in alignment with myself but I haven’t been able to find that.

[0:17:55.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Are you actively searching for that?

[0:17:57.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I was for a while, but I have not.

[0:17:59.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was going to say, I haven’t heard about that.

[0:18:02.4] ERIN LINEHAN: But it was a process for a while and so – but I just don’t really like. I like the actual structure of church, but I don’t really like all the things that go with the people at church. So, then that was kind of my path, I grew up super catholic and then now I think that being connected. Nature, like when I’m on my long runs feels very important to me and feeling connected and grounded because if I am in my best self and connected to the ground and something’s bigger than us then – 

It’s more of like the universe or source or spirit or whatever. That is where it is for me. How about you all?

[0:18:36.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I was also raised catholic so I can relate to a lot of the things you said and I just remember – my mom was the main driver of raising us catholic and at the time when I was a child, I got the sense that she wasn’t too into it and as an adult, she slowly gotten more and more – very enthusiastic about it.

But yeah, we went to church every single Sunday, we did the Sunday school at night, I did the confirmation and all that stuff when I was 16, I went to a catholic high school for two years and it was just a huge part of my upbringing and well, I don’t relate to it today for multiple reasons, mainly, that it doesn’t resonate with me and feel like true for me.

I am very happy that I was raised with a religion. I sound sick don’t I? 

[0:19:30.8] AMY MOORE: I have a little bit of the same for whatever reason.

[0:19:33.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: A frog in my throat. Like I’m glad that I was raised with a religion so that this idea of a higher power or spiritual connection is not so abstract to me or so foreign that I can’t accept it as something that I just simply can’t accept it. Because of my upbringing, I can accept a spiritual existence and one that resonates with me. 

When I was in my late 20s, I had someone help me create a prayer actually and it was one of the most powerful things I had ever done. Mainly, gosh, sorry.

[0:20:14.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We lost her.

[0:20:15.2] AMY MOORE: Jesus is in her throat.

[0:20:17.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Jesus is like blaspheme. Which brings me to my – I could not believe that we were making our own prayer. I was like what? This is so against the rules. I love it.

[0:20:30.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Anna’s a rebel.

[0:20:33.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Year, I might be a little bit. Just to make a prayer that was completely foreign to me that that was even possible. I love that I can make one that actually meant something to me and it was the first time that started separating that idea of religion and spirituality and the idea that those two things are not necessarily the same at all and you can have one without the other.

That was – I can really relate to a lot of the things that you said Erin about like the nature connection. I remember camping in Moab and we were right along the river and it was so beautiful and the sun would set and the sun would rise along these huge red rocks and I just remember being in awe and just thinking, I don’t know what the hell there is out there but it’s bigger than me and I am totally okay with that. 

I am open to what I meant to do in this world and I’m open to this energy and at that moment, nature was my higher power and those red rocks and just that beauty and just being in that moment and being in awe of the wonders of the world I guess and it was just like – a super spiritual experience to just saying, this is not created by a human force, you know? It’s bigger than me.

Way bigger than me and the other thing that I can relate to about what you said is the religion class. In high school, when I had those two years at that catholic high school, I was in a religion class that’s like wonder things. Catholic religion class. I remember thinking, gosh, it would be so great if we could learn, this is a religion class, why don’t we learn about all the religions that are out there. Yeah, no.

It just wasn’t happening, but I just remember thinking like, what if we had the knowledge and then we actively chose Catholicism because that’s something that we truly felt resonated most with us. That’s what made sense to me as a high schooler. It still makes sense to me.

[0:22:37.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, go to cost cutter so there’s that but like my hair styles there, I’ve seen her for 15 years now but she’s an adult obviously and she went in that process which I admire so much because it’s like, she was like no, this is a thing that fits for me and so it was like Easter and I was getting my hair cut and she was like, I’m getting baptized because she’s gone through the whole catechism class which was awesome because then it’s like, you chose that and this is the thing that lines up for you? I admire when people can choose that.

[0:23:03.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Leah.

[0:23:03.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah, it’s cool.

[0:23:04.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, super cool. I mean, my connection with my religion or spirituality has definitely been complicated mostly because I’ve let other people’s expectations of how that should look really impact me and my feelings and once I let go of that – you know, ultimately I have to – I want to have a connection to my spiritual life in a way that actually is true to me and resonates with me. 

That’s when I started having the most growth in that area I should say. Then, when a certain person, my mom, brings it up, I just you know, we try to not talk about it because we have different opinions and the craziest thing about this is that we both believe in a higher power, she hates that word when I use it but my idea, because I don’t practice Catholicism, it’s not good enough.

Hopefully it’s okay that I’m going to have to give her a heads up that I said that but like, it’s not like a private thing but she didn’t go to my wedding or my siblings’ weddings because they weren’t in the catholic church. She’s hardcore.

I was going to ask you Erin, your family’s catholic. Did they have crushes on the priest? Because like my mom and my aunt and my grandma, they always had crushes on the priest or like, I just remember like, priest… so cute.

[0:24:31.9] ERIN LINEHAN: My mom was friends with all of them, so they were at our house like for dinner or whatever. I remember them being around a lot but they were – 

[0:24:38.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: But it wasn’t like a googly eye?

[0:24:41.4] ERIN LINEHAN: No.

[0:24:42.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that’s totally my aunts and it’s just like my grandma, just like father so and so is so cute, just adorable. Anyway.

[0:24:51.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Right, when you were talking about catholic school, it made me think when I was in fourth grade, I got a D in religion. It was awful because the monsignor from the church gave out the report cards and he was like, well, we got to improve this a little bit in front of the whole class, it was terrible. My god, it makes me laugh, it’s not like – but I’m like, my god. Religion class, I forgot about that till right now. Sorry monsignor, sorry. Got a D, right?

[0:25:23.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: One other funny thing. My mom, she loved – Catholicism and guilt is like they go hand in hand.

[0:25:29.7] ERIN LINEHAN: My mom said that was for the conversation. The night when I just we were talking about that. You never forget that guilt and she like kind of belly laughed so hard.

[0:25:38.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s such a part of it and so this hilarious text, she didn’t mean for it to be hilarious but on Christmas eve, she sends us a text to me and my siblings and my immediate family we’re visiting, my parents for Christmas and she sends a text to all of us and she goes, me and Jesus would really like to see you at church tonight and we’re like, mom.

[0:26:03.3] ERIN LINEHAN: That sounds like something my mom would do.

[0:26:05.3] AMY MOORE: Same with mine.

[0:26:07.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s awesome. I was like – 

[0:26:08.8] AMY MOORE: That is a great mom nugget right there.

[0:26:11.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was like, tell Jesus I said what’s up. Baby boomer mom nugget, that’s it.

[0:26:18.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s hilarious.

[0:26:19.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What about you, Amy?

[0:26:20.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Me and Jesus would like to see you in church today.

[0:26:22.7] AMY MOORE: That’s good.

[0:26:24.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She also says that when we all die, she wants me to be catholic because she wants us all to be in heaven together.

[0:26:31.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:26:32.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, she’s coming.

[0:26:33.2] AMY MOORE: From a mom’s perspective, I get that.

[0:26:35.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I get it too. I’m like wow, this guilt thing. #guilt.

[0:26:42.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, that’s right.

[0:26:47.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I just want us to all be in heaven together. I can’t promise that. I got to peace out here.

[0:26:55.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:26:57.2] AMY MOORE: I got to say, as an adult, I have been more intrigued with the catholic church.

[0:27:03.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah?

[0:27:04.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, I don’t know why. I went to Rome in 2018, 2017? Yes, November of 2017. Saw the Vatican and saw just the catholic church as this thing I have never known it to be. I did not grow with the catholic church, I did not – I knew friends who – so we had this situation in junior high where there was a catholic school just like a block away from the public junior high and so the kids from the catholic school, they would sometimes come down and do like PE with us or like other none core subjects.

One of my really good friends still today, she was at the catholic church and you know, it’s just like this thing where the catholic school kids or whatever. And then you know, us regular ones, whatever that is.

[0:28:00.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You devil children.

[0:28:01.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Exactly. Yeah.

[0:28:03.6] AMY MOORE: Yes, but anyway I just never was exposed to the Catholic Church much at all. I was raised – Oh and I got to say as an adult too the thing with the Catholic Church is, I do like tradition like holidays are one of – I absolutely I love holidays for the most part. I mean they are almost equally as difficult as they are something early enjoyable for me but I love the traditions in them and I feel like with the Catholic Church, it is so strong on tradition and ritual and I have always been so intrigued by those confessions booths like whoa. 

[0:28:45.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So we’re talking about this episode before we started recording and we are in the studio and I was sitting on the floor and Amy and Erin – this is today, right before, it is just funny that we are talking about this but there is this chairs in here that have this mesh backing and it’s got two layers of mesh and I was looking at Erin. I was on the floor and they were in the chairs. 

[0:29:11.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Hard to make eye contact when this is happening. 

[0:29:13.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She, in her eyes looking at her through the mesh, it was totally in confessional moment. We did have flashbacks. 

[0:29:20.7] AMY MOORE: Both you went straight to something I have never seen either of you do before. Anna was like, “Oh confessional” and Erin you were like, I don’t even know what you said but something about I don’t know, some prayer and then you’re like – it was just going to be like – 

[0:29:34.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Forgive me father for I have sinned. 

[0:29:37.8] AMY MOORE: It was automatic so obviously a very familiar thing to both of you. 

[0:29:42.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah and so really quick on this, confessional topic. I also in my late 20s talked to someone who – actually it is the same person who helped me create the prayer and so she had experience with Catholicism as well and she said something that she doesn’t think is conveyed to the children going through this confessional process and she had done this with her own children is she said, “Your sins are literally wiped clean like you are a…” – oh gosh, whoops. 

[0:30:13.7] AMY MOORE: She is man as excited about this. Sins are wiped clean, my coffee is all over the table. That’s okay

[0:30:22.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: But she was just telling me the story that she was telling these children of like you have a clean slate after this and that was something that was also very powerful of like this is the purpose of this to have a clean slate to start fresh and you are literally forgiven. So, I mean that is a positive spin over. 

[0:30:42.3] AMY MOORE: I think that is a really interesting – the ideas behind so much of any religion are good and then I feel like people and especially people who have – they do weird things when they are in a position of power they just screw it all up. 

[0:30:58.3] ERIN LINEHAN: But I was reading something, Richard Rohr is a respected figure and he is a Catholic priest and so he was writing something about like what the confessional is and I don’t have the words around that and I was like, “Oh” and what sin was and when he explained it in that way I’m like, “I wish someone from the beginning would have talked to me about” that it was just the human condition. 

I think that he talked about and then we act out of like the human condition or from our wounds and that is what that it and so more of a loving and forgiving way I think that it is interesting that how I perceive that as a kid was not from a place of compassion, which is it is all what Christianity is. 

[0:31:39.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is like a shame. 

[0:31:40.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, and so that is the way that I have received it. I hope that others do not have that experience but if that was how I was brought up in that way then it would have been – then I think I would be in a different spot. 

[0:31:52.0] AMY MOORE: Yes. So I think for me I was raised also very religious but more in that loving way. So, it was the Presbyterian Church and Lutheran here and there but primarily Presbyterian and I was confirmed in the Presbyterian Church and what I remember from that is mostly a really strong community. So my parents had a ton of friends. My parents had so many friends in the church and we had family friends that were sharing – oh man Erin is holding up a piece of paper, so she doesn’t look at Anna. 

Anyway, I feel like that to me that is kind of what church was. Church was friends. So church was – especially as a kid like a really little girl I remember that there were a lot of older girls who were in Sunday school or confirmation and I really looked up to them and some of them would take part in the church services, reading from the Bible or whatever and I don’t know. I just always thought like that was one of my things and I loved it when I was really little. 

I love going to church, Sunday school whatever but then in my teenage years when my rebellion kicked in, you know definitely 15 for sure maybe a little bit before that but I remember I was in confirmation at a Presbyterian Church in the current place I was living and we had this youth minister who was not like anyone I had met before in a church. He was really into questioning everything. So, he really encouraged us to question and I had a ton of friends in confirmation and it was just fun because we got to hang out. 

And like sometimes we’d cause trouble before or after but then we’d get together, you know? It was just like not – it was way more about the exploration of religion and faith than anything, but I almost think like it ended up leading me the other way. I was just like, “Oh okay. I am not really into this” and then I started seeing the hypocrisy of it all and like you know we were a family who would go every Sunday no matter what and then every Wednesday no matter. 

And then you know, I mean holidays it was just like you don’t miss church. You go every week multiple times and I just was very, very aware of hypocrisy. Like we were supposedly as a family trying to portray and different parts of the religion, I feel like but it did not line up whatsoever. That is how I felt. 

[0:34:43.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well it goes back to that idea of like you know validating kids feelings and respecting them as like don’t treat them like dum-dums because they totally know what is going on and they are picking it up and I remember just like you said, of seeing that disconnect and you are saying this, that doesn’t resonate. 

[0:35:04.7] AMY MOORE: Like love and forgiveness but then like there is a whole group of the population that you don’t actually love nor accept nor forgive, you know? It’s just like what? 

[0:35:13.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How does that work? How does that make sense, yeah. 

[0:35:15.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah but is also really been interesting to see my mom’s faith in religion evolve overtime and she’s just become more and more open and definitely just a different approach, which has been nice for me because I feel like we have in a strange way come together almost. We were able to talk about spirituality more than we ever had before. So super interesting but yes. So I would say, a funny fact so we would do this retreats confirmation. 

[0:35:46.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I love funny facts. 

[0:35:48.0] AMY MOORE: Oh man, so this one I went on this retreat and we thought it was a good idea to pierce our ears on the retreat. So we found a needle, ice cubes and I ended up – yeah, so I had one piercing on each ear and then I added two more on one ear and yeah and then my friends, they also we pierced – I don’t even know how many ears we pierced that weekend but I went home and my mom was like, “Amy.” 

[0:36:20.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We are open for business. 

[0:36:22.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, she was like “Amy Elizabeth, what did you do now” and I said, “Well I pierced my ears but don’t worry mom it is three in one like the holy spirit, god the father.” 

[0:36:32.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Did you think of that on the spot or was that intentional?

[0:36:36.1] AMY MOORE: That was absolutely not intentional, but I thought it was a great excuse. 

[0:36:41.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh my god. It is the trinity mom. 

[0:36:45.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, three in one, oh my god. 

[0:36:47.4] AMY MOORE: So I had those pierced well. I might redo them I had them redone recently but yeah. 

[0:36:54.0] ERIN LINEHAN: What we used to do in high school. 

[0:36:56.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: My mom won’t let us drive in our huge full size van. 

[0:37:00.5] ERIN LINEHAN: We would too, where you would put a bed in the back, oh god it was the best. 

[0:37:04.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And we even had a TV. It was literally all static, but we felt really cool. It was called the conversion vans. 

[0:37:14.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah it was amazing. We’d drive from Pennsylvania to St. Louis. 

[0:37:18.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, we did from Virginia to Iowa, yeah. Yeah it was like all carpet everywhere and it is like soft velvety carpet, it was maroon. 

[0:37:28.6] AMY MOORE: I had a friend who had a turquoise one. 

[0:37:31.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It was maroon and gold. This is totally 90s.

[0:37:33.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Ours is blue and white, Penn State colors just saying. 

[0:37:36.9] AMY MOORE: Oh yeah nice of course. 

[0:37:38.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So when we got to be teenagers or my mom – 

[0:37:42.2] AMY MOORE: You had some fun times in that van. 

[0:37:43.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hell, yeah girl. Actually, not a ton but like – but so my mom started letting us drive to church by ourselves when she would go to an earlier mass or whatever. 

[0:37:59.3] AMY MOORE: Would you actually go? 

[0:38:00.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh we would go. Yeah and my sisters we would go but we – you both are looking at me like really? I am not done with the story yet so we would go, we would sit in the parking lot and so in case anyone drove by then we could say, “Yeah the car is right there.” obviously we were at the church but we were just like listen to music and talk for an hour and then we would go in and grab the bulletin to get proof. 

[0:38:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh absolutely, well done. Details, details. 

[0:38:32.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We thought it through and then we would come back. 

[0:38:33.2] AMY MOORE: Mom wasn’t that verse great? Oh yeah, what was it? 

[0:38:38.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And she’s like, “What was mass about girls?” and we’re like God. She can’t say I am wrong, right? The details don’t really matter but she knew. Yeah probably she knew.

[0:38:53.1] AMY MOORE: So, wait, I have to say one thing about my current state with – 

[0:38:57.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh yeah, we got to be real. 

[0:38:58.8] AMY MOORE: I would say in general, I won’t get – yeah wrap this up quick here but I would say today, so I did not baptize my kids and we decided that we would be – I mean their dad and I decided that and it’s been interesting to think about that now but I think a lot about having the experience like you had mentioned Erin where I would love to have my kids or to teach my kids like so many different. 

Or get them exposed to a bunch of different ways that they could worship a higher power or have a spiritual life or spirituality and then have them make that decision when they are a little bit more ready for it, you know? And one of my kids has already made some really interesting connections with the history of the world and wars that have been fought about religions and we had talked about doing a world map and then placing where there is major representation of different religion and then seeing how that has worked in the world but I hope that we – 

[0:40:05.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That sounds like such an Amy thing. 

[0:40:07.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah, I know. 

[0:40:07.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Like amazing. I am like, “That is a great idea.” 

[0:40:10.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: All color coded. 

[0:40:11.0] AMY MOORE: Thank you, oh yeah. 

[0:40:11.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Laminated? 

[0:40:13.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Of course, right? 

[0:40:13.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, so anyway I look forward to some of that with my own kids but I would say for me now I haven’t been part of a religion for many years probably since I was really at my parents’ house at 18 but the spirituality component has only gotten like it has just been a part of my life ever since and again, I started at college in Portland, Oregon and had tons of experiences with nature. Super spiritual connection in nature and that was my path for a while. 

And then some really rough spots happened. Actually I think I mentioned the accident that my college boyfriend was in and I was like, “No, God does not exist” like this would not happen if that – to good people things like this won’t happen, and so then it was kind of like a low point but then it is like I think now as I have gotten older, the idea of just the universe or this higher power or you know some spirit guide I so firmly believe in especially now I see it at work while I am going through hard times. 

Rather than blaming it for a hard time I see it really carrying me through and so that’s been a huge shift for me and I only hope that my kids have that sense as well you know? And then the last thing I’ll say, last week I was at a memorial service. Was that last week? That was this week, oh boy, okay so this week I was at a memorial service and it was in a beautiful Presbyterian Church in Denver. I felt so peaceful sitting and waiting for the service to start and I think there is something about the buildings. 

Of any kind of denomination, whatever that might be or any kind of religion for that manner but there is something about these spiritual buildings that I do think there is energy there that can really be good for people or maybe really feel good depending on of course your experience but that is all I got on religion piece, okay. Oh boy that was a little bit longer of a conversation than I thought we are going to do. 

[0:42:33.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I thought we were just going to – 

[0:42:35.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Touch on it. Two things on the list that I want to talk about before we go. So what would you say to your younger self to that part and then other part of that is that celebration of joy and leaning into that. So sitting in success and success, Moorea talked about success equaling survival and so I don’t know where you want to start with that but those are the two things that I think I’d like to talk about before. 

[0:42:57.9] AMY MOORE: Totally. I love that what would you say to your younger self and I think her response was so good. Oh my gosh. 

[0:43:09.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So, what did she say again? 

[0:43:11.2] AMY MOORE: Well I don’t know if you remember but one thing I remember her saying was when she was meeting new people, she wanted to meet them as their younger selves and she wanted them to feel like I am here for you, you are safe with me, I accept you and I will grow with you. That was the other thing. 

[0:43:32.5] ERIN LINEHAN: It just feels good in my body. So good. 

[0:43:33.6] AMY MOORE: So good but yeah I would say for me – 

[0:43:37.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Well think about how different though if we were talking to a little kid, people don’t talk like that. You talk to a little kid so sweet and nice generally and so if we did that – 

[0:43:47.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We are kind of patronizing, if we are being honest. 

[0:43:50.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Right but if you are not patronizing so maybe that’s you but have you? 

[0:43:55.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, I mean in general. 

[0:43:56.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Right but if you are talking or seeing kids you are not going to be a dick to a little kid generally. 

[0:44:01.5] AMY MOORE: But I also think actually that if you are speaking to a kid with respect you are not patronizing them. I have kids who I think are spoken to that way, but I don’t think it is right nor do I think it is necessary. Kids can totally talk to a normal person. 

[0:44:19.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, but I think that like in speaking and then if we talk to each other like that to just like talk to see those parts of people then the world would be an entirely – they won’t be having road rage that is for sure. 

[0:44:31.6] AMY MOORE: No, people wouldn’t be such assholes. 

[0:44:35.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah that’s true. 

[0:44:36.0] AMY MOORE: But you know that is what it is. So I would say though for my younger self there were definitely some like I don’t know, traumas from my childhood or whatever and I would say to my younger self, I would tell myself that you are loveable no matter what and what you experience is real.

[0:45:04.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Well that’s good. Anna what do you got? 

[0:45:07.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I would say to my younger self and I remember what Moorea said and how this came up that “me help me”. Yeah but let’s see, I would say – so I struggled a lot with the anxiety and the shyness and I would say I see you, I hear you, I love you, you are right where you are supposed to be and trust your gut. 

[0:45:33.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That is really good.

[0:45:34.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Therapy’s working. 

[0:45:39.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s so good. I would tell my younger self that I would probably work on teaching my younger self not to be so critical because people would tell me like, “Oh you are so hard on yourself” and I am like, “What? Stop saying that” and that my worth is not tied to my productivity or what I like because I can do things in the world that doesn’t make me good like I am inherently just worthy. So I would say it makes me emotional. 

[0:46:05.2] AMY MOORE: I know good deep breath. 

[0:46:08.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, just that you are inherently worthy and to just chill out a little bit. 

[0:46:12.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, we should make each other like a sign or post it notes or a daily text that just says those things to each other. 

[0:46:21.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I got to go back and write down what you all said. I didn’t take notes. 

[0:46:30.3] ERIN LINEHAN: We’ll review later Anna. 

[0:46:33.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “Oh shit.” 

[0:46:34.7] AMY MOORE: It is a good nugget for the audience to think about. What does your inner child need to hear? 

[0:46:40.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah what would you tell your younger self and then start saying that to your younger self and showing up for your younger self as the person you needed. 

[0:46:50.4] AMY MOORE: Oh I have a good practical tip. Someone told me actually back at the bar three retreat, I tell you my life has changed there, yep but they just take and I did this daily for I think it was a 30 day challenge, gratitude list challenge or something but you take a whiteboard marker, you write anything on your mirror and it just wipes right off. So even like what would you want to tell your younger self just take a whiteboard marker, write it on your mirror, done. Don’t even worry about post it notes.

[0:47:20.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That is a good idea, don’t even worry about your podcast cohost texting you with it. So it gets there and you forgot. 

[0:47:30.5] AMY MOORE: Exactly I am just getting my whiteboard marker out. 

[0:47:33.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Amy you were supposed to send me a text today. 

[0:47:35.6] AMY MOORE: Oh shit.

[0:47:38.5] ERIN LINEHAN: So celebration and joy, how do you lean into it and do you? Is that easy, hard? Where are you with that? 

[0:47:44.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh gosh I have a really hard time with it. 

[0:47:46.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I am not a great seguer like you. 

[0:47:49.0] AMY MOORE: Oh no but I think it goes hand in hand. You know it is like if your inner child was feeling what you were telling them then how much more likely would it be that you could celebrate yourself and you could feel joy. 

[0:48:04.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know I immediately think of is my little son and how I celebrate with him when he has success and it’s like high fives and it is like let’s sit in it and just making that eye contact and just saying like, “I am so proud of you” and like maybe that is an idea. I can’t help but think like when I think about talking to my younger self or my little self and taking care of little Anna. 

You know like how I do indeed talk to my son and the words that I tell him and it is like I can be the mom to my little self that I need to be and I can also use that language as I am parenting him to teach him how to do that currently, you know? So hopefully he doesn’t have the issues or self-doubt that I have but doing the best I can as far as here are words, here is we can sit in this. Here is how we can be proud of ourselves in the moment for what we are doing, you know? 

[0:49:04.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that I am working hard on being generally as an adult more playful and I have a friend who is always like, “Well did you have fun?” and I am like, “Oh fuck” I forget and so focusing on that it is not just about doing, doing, doing but there is time to celebrate what things are going well and also to have fun and being playful in those moments. I remember I had my dog, we were on the Oregon coast two years ago. 

And I remember it was the first time my dog could be off the leash and she was so stoked to be on the beach and just running and I was like, “Oh yeah, I forgot that I had this part of me” which is good but I would say about the celebration thing, I think that those things in everyday life are great. The thing that drives me crazy about our culture is that this whole everybody gets a ribbon thing because I don’t think that that – then it is like someone can work super hard. 

Or have really great performance or whatever and then their thing is just equal to someone that merrily stood on the floor or whatever and so I think that that part of celebration is not my favorite part of things because then they cheapens the experience for something that you put work into or whatever. 

[0:50:23.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, I do have hope though that culturally we have seen the flaws of everybody getting a trophy and it is shifting. I do think that is shifting. I mean I should say, I hope. 

[0:50:36.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I hope yes. 

[0:50:37.3] AMY MOORE: But the thing that I would say about celebrating so I – 

[0:50:39.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Because you could acknowledge someone for like, “Hey great job for being here but not everyone wins the grand prize.” 

[0:50:45.9] AMY MOORE: And also like hey, you did a really good job. 

[0:50:49.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And you tried. 

[0:50:51.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah, you tried. There is value there – whoa another coffee cup down. Okay here is what I would say about that. So I was in a relationship for a little over a decade and I was always defined in the relationship as the person who didn’t really have fun. I was more of the down to business type personality where the other person was like, “Oh the super fun one” and you know all of these stuff and it’s been very eye opening for me to get out of that relationship. 

And totally change that narrative. I am fun. I have a lot of fun and I enjoy having fun and as you both know, I have gotten a trampoline in my backyard and I have a goal after seeing this shaman that I would jump on this trampoline with my kids daily every time that we are together. 

[0:51:43.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I didn’t know that one. That is great. 

[0:51:45.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I didn’t know that. How fun. 

[0:51:46.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah and so the shaman was even like, “Even if it is for two minutes you know just jump” and I was just seeing my therapist recently and she’s like, “You know another reason why I love that trampoline is because it brings that inner child out for you and I have to say it has been a game changer because no matter what, the kids and I we have so much fun jumping on the trampoline. 

[0:52:08.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Trampolines are so fun. 

[0:52:09.4] AMY MOORE: It is so fun. I love it and it has just been a new way that I can identify that I am having fun and I can be fun and this is great. 

[0:52:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Right, everyone step into that and that is a familiar part and so like then it is like yes, owning that again. 

[0:52:25.9] AMY MOORE: Totally yeah. So that has been really fun like I am really grateful for it and then as far as celebrating, I am going through this situation where I am looking at some potential contract work or whatever and this person is excited about working with me and I find myself being like a little bit of self-doubt is creeping in but I think just the ability to accept that maybe this doesn’t really have anything to do with celebration now that I am thinking about it but I find it hard to celebrate myself.

Or celebrate my own accomplishments, you know people will say like, “Wow you have gotten so much. You have accomplished so much in the last few months like it is pretty remarkable” and I am like, “Uh but there is so much more to do.” It is hard for me to not just always be pushing so. 

[0:53:15.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, same. 

[0:53:16.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I hear you on that. Yeah. 

[0:53:18.2] AMY MOORE: But is sure is fun to be here podcasting. 

[0:53:21.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is. 

[0:53:21.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I think this is actually in a lot of ways is like a good fun outlet for myself. It is just to be ridiculous and yeah. 

[0:53:30.6] AMY MOORE: Talking into these microphones. 

[0:53:33.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. It is so fun. 

[0:53:35.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And like our goal with this when we started was just to have fun.

[0:53:40.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah and to bring our coffee shop chats to other people. 

[0:53:45.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is. It is super fun. It is such a great outlet. 

[0:53:48.2] ERIN LINEHAN: And I think also too when you have good connections with people. I think that that just naturally brings out fun and playful energy generally because you feel it. 

[0:53:59.7] AMY MOORE: And the fact that we do dance before every episode and to have fun, right? It is good stuff.

[0:54:11.5] ERIN LINEHAN: If you want to join in the fun, you can listen to Hypnotize by Biggie Smalls. 

[0:54:15.1] AMY MOORE: Oh yeah we should just put a link directly. Oh you know we could make a playlist. 

[0:54:20.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh good idea. Spotify playlist we make it, all of our pump songs. 

[0:54:27.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh yeah, I love that. 

[0:54:27.8] AMY MOORE: It is a great idea. 

[0:54:28.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes, and we’ll share it.

[0:54:30.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah because you know the other song that we talked about in the home episode was that song Home.

[0:54:35.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah that is a great way to share it. 

[0:54:35.5] AMY MOORE: If we could add that too maybe. 

[0:54:40.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, I like this. 

[0:54:40.9] AMY MOORE: Yes, that would be really fun. 

[0:54:41.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah freaking #genius. We’re freaking smart. We’re freaking smart up in here you all. 

[0:54:50.2] AMY MOORE: Well that brings us to the top of the hour. 

[0:54:52.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yep, here we are. 

[0:54:53.7] AMY MOORE: That is about it ladies. It’s been a fun one. 

[0:54:53.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It has been. 

[0:54:57.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s been a good one. 

[0:54:57.6] AMY MOORE: We had fun. 

[0:54:58.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, it has been a big one. 

[0:55:00.2] AMY MOORE: I just want to give a huge shout out to Moorea Seal because yeah, clapping hands here. It was a great interview and obviously gave us a lot to talk about today and we’re just super excited to support you.

[0:55:19.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And so for the awareness nugget, so make a note to your younger self, what would you say to your younger self? 

[0:55:27.9] AMY MOORE: What loving words would you say to your younger self. All right. 

[0:55:33.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Cool. 

[0:55:34.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay.

[0:55:34.8] AMY MOORE: Have a good one everybody. We’ll be back soon. 

[0:55:36.6] ERIN LINEHAN: See you next time. 

[0:55:37.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bye. 

[0:55:38.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Bye. 


[0:55:43.4] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com and if you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.


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