EP24: The Best Advice is What You Already Know


Undermining the instinct, validating the gut, the insidiousness of gaslighting, listening to fear (but not letting it drive the bus), and learning how to trust yourself again after making a “mistake”. Plus: karaoke, a bunch of “c” words, fear, intuition, nudges, hooks, and pulls. We talk about all this and more so be sure to tune in! 

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Intro and Outro Music Credit: Night Owl by Broke for Free from the Album Directionless EP (Creative Commons License)

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[0:00:00.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The contents of this show are for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on the show does not create a client-therapist relationship and should not be taken as professional advice. Before making any decisions regarding your healthcare, ask your personal physician, or mental healthcare professional, or call 911 for any emergencies.

[0:00:21.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.

[0:00:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.

[0:00:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.


[0:00:35.4] AMY MOORE: Well, ladies.

[0:00:36.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Hello.

[0:00:37.1] AMY MOORE: Here we are.

[0:00:37.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Here we are.

[0:00:38.8] AMY MOORE: Back in the studio.

[0:00:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Back in the saddle again.

[0:00:42.6] AMY MOORE: I was going to say back in – what’s that song? Back in the [inaudible 0:00:46.0].

[0:00:46.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I don’t know that one.

[0:00:47.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Keep going. Maybe you should –

[0:00:48.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I don’t know that one.

[0:00:49.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I love when people sing songs and they just know the main chorus and then [inaudible 0:00:55.0].

[0:00:59.8] AMY MOORE: That’s me a lot of the time.

[0:01:01.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s me too.

[0:01:01.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I just make up the words. I’m like, “Whoa! I really did not.” Those are not the lyrics I thought I was singing the whole time.

[0:01:06.5] AMY MOORE: Wait. Do you know I love karaoke?

[0:01:08.8] ERIN LINEHAN: No.

[0:01:09.7] AMY MOORE: Yes. I bought one last Christmas and –

[0:01:13.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: A karaoke machine thing?

[0:01:14.9] AMY MOORE: Yes. There was so much karaoke over Christmas last year –

[0:01:20.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That sounds amazing.

[0:01:21.4] AMY MOORE: For days. It was so fun. By the end, my –

[0:01:25.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Vocal cords?

[0:01:26.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, they were – they were fried or whatever.

[0:01:28.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Did you ever do Tiffany?

[0:01:30.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah.

[0:01:31.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Which your go-to song?

[0:01:34.1] AMY MOORE: I don’t really have one necessarily.

[0:01:36.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: All the songs?

[0:01:37.3] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah. All the songs.

[0:01:39.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel like I get such stage fright with the karaoke idea. Okay, so when I was little my mom told me, “Honey, don’t sing. You’re tone deaf.” Ever since then –

[0:01:47.7] ERIN LINEHAN: AMDR. Raindrops keep falling on my head.

[0:01:53.8] AMY MOORE: If I had a karaoke party, would you come?

[0:01:55.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I would. I feel like I would need to practice.

[0:01:57.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That doesn’t mean my eyes would soon be turning red.

[0:02:00.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think that’s it. Yes.

[0:02:02.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, crying is not for me, because I’ll never going to stop the rain back to playing.

[0:02:07.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a yes.

[0:02:09.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Because I’m free. Now that’s worrying me.

[0:02:15.3] AMY MOORE: All right. We’re just going to –

[0:02:17.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re all set on that.

[0:02:18.0] AMY MOORE: Here we go.

[0:02:19.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a wrap.

[0:02:22.1] ERIN LINEHAN: She just keeps going.

[0:02:23.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: She’s still singing.

[0:02:25.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Best part of your day.

[0:02:28.2] AMY MOORE: Today in studio, we are talking about –

[0:02:33.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Where’s the three of us? That’s in studio today, we have the three of us. Okay.

[0:02:37.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “Where is she going with this one?”

[0:02:39.8] AMY MOORE: Here we are. We’re going to talk about a few ideas that came up from Feather Berkower’s interview.

[0:02:46.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Super powerful interview.

[0:02:48.1] AMY MOORE: Sure was.

[0:02:48.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was like, “Damn. Such good stuff.” High, high value. Such a good reminder, because I read the book. I’m all about her Facebook page, all the freebies and resources she provides. I’m all about it, because it’s just so good. Then even hearing her and talking with her, it was just like, “Oh, that’s a good reminder.”

[0:03:11.4] AMY MOORE: I felt the same thing.

[0:03:12.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I forgot that same piece, or that little – it’s just a good reminder of stuff.

[0:03:15.8] AMY MOORE: Well, even the fact that as kids get older, it’s still so important for the adult to be taking responsibility to prevent any kind of sexual assault, or anything. It is my responsibility for my children from here on out. I think even that is such a powerful reminder, or as life changes and situation changes.

[0:03:39.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It was a good one.

[0:03:40.8] AMY MOORE: It really was. A number of resources came up and two of them that stuck out particularly –

[0:03:47.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hey, before we do that. Oh, snap. I couldn’t leave you. Listen to a review.

[0:03:54.1] AMY MOORE: We got another one and this one –

[0:03:55.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We act so surprised. We are literally asking for them every single episode. Please review. Please share. Then we’re like, “Oh, gee.” We’re so surprised. What, a five-star review? Oh, dear.

[0:04:10.4] AMY MOORE: Guess who wrote this one though? One of the OGs, Jenny Wiens.

[0:04:15.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wait, wait, wait. It’s her husband, right?

[0:04:17.7] AMY MOORE: No. That’s actually her son’s account. I talked to her and I said, “Hey, I saw that you wrote a review. Thank you.” She was like, “My pleasure.” Then we talked about how it actually says Jake, but it’s Jenny.

[0:04:31.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, because I was like is that her husband? I don’t know.

[0:04:33.2] AMY MOORE: Jenny wrote, “I feel more connected after …” Five stars.

[0:04:41.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, after listening probably, because it cuts off, like the long enables.

[0:04:46.8] ERIN LINEHAN: We do this every time.

[0:04:49.1] AMY MOORE: Do we?

[0:04:50.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. There’s always confusion every time.

[0:04:53.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wait. I love how we always just – everything’s new every time.

[0:04:58.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Beginner’s mind, people. Beginner’s mind.

[0:05:00.7] AMY MOORE: Jenny wrote, “I feel more connected after listening.” Then she says, “I love this podcast for so many reasons. I feel like I’m sitting at the table talking to old friends and the laughter is contagious. The topics are interesting, relatable and I always have a take away after I listened to it. For anyone needing a boost during their day or some amazing resources for staying connected in general, give it a listen to feel less alone in life.”

[0:05:29.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you, Jenny.

[0:05:30.7] AMY MOORE: Thank you, Jenny.


[0:05:35.5] AMY MOORE: Hey, Anna.

[0:05:36.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah?

[0:05:36.7] AMY MOORE: You know, Erin’s a pretty badass therapist, right?

[0:05:39.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I totally know. I just take notes when she’s talking.

[0:05:42.4] AMY MOORE: Me too. Some of our audience does as well. Did you know that there’s also a place that you can get information directly from her?

[0:05:52.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: On her website, right?

[0:05:54.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Didn’t you do it?

[0:05:55.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:05:56.1] AMY MOORE: Tell us about it.

[0:05:56.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, so there’s all these free workshops that they’re offering. At thekaliinstitute.com, you can sign up for those. K-A-L-I is how you spell Kali and then Institute, thekaliinstitute.com.

[0:06:09.7] AMY MOORE: Get it done.


[0:06:14.9] AMY MOORE: The conversation or the interview with Feather was so powerful.

[0:06:18.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Powerful. She’s amazing.

[0:06:20.5] AMY MOORE: She really is.

[0:06:21.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I’ve never heard her talk live before. She’s awesome.

[0:06:23.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, me neither.

[0:06:24.1] AMY MOORE: The workshop that I attended with her was a life changer.

[0:06:27.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I appreciate her balance of compassion and directness. It’s amazing. It’s amazing.

[0:06:33.1] AMY MOORE: That’s a really good point. Yeah.

[0:06:34.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, before we get into that –

[0:06:35.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, geez.

[0:06:36.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, here she is.

[0:06:38.1] AMY MOORE: Go ahead.

[0:06:38.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Regulators mount up.

[0:06:41.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, Amy, come one, we got answer our question.

[0:06:46.0] AMY MOORE: You know what? I don’t have it on my outline, so I am so glad you’re here to remind me of.

[0:06:52.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Wow.

[0:06:53.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s sarcasm.

[0:06:55.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Holy shit.

[0:06:56.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No. Actually, it really wasn’t.

[0:06:58.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I was like, “Wow, that was really something right here.”

[0:07:01.7] AMY MOORE: No. No, no, no.

[0:07:02.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thanks, Anna. I’m glad you’re here to remind me.

[0:07:05.8] AMY MOORE: I forgot to put the – all of it.

[0:07:08.2] ERIN LINEHAN: All right.

[0:07:08.9] AMY MOORE: Anna is like my personal outline for real. Thank you.

[0:07:13.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m getting into that.

[0:07:14.7] AMY MOORE: No sarcasm. Yeah.

[0:07:16.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We ended that episode with our random question, would you rather eat rotten tomatoes or a can of cat food? I want to know what you two would choose.

[0:07:26.9] AMY MOORE: Rotten tomatoes, especially if I could somehow cook them.

[0:07:30.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what I just thought? What about okay, I’ve never had cat food.

[0:07:37.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I can’t –

[0:07:38.3] AMY MOORE: I think cat food smells so bad. That’s the only thing. Right away, I’m like –

[0:07:42.7] ERIN LINEHAN: What if you had premium salmon or something?

[0:07:44.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, okay, are we talking about that stuff in the can, or the pebbles?

[0:07:48.4] AMY MOORE: I guess, that’s right where my head went is the stuff in the can and the wet.

[0:07:52.2] ERIN LINEHAN: The gelatinous substance around it.

[0:07:54.4] AMY MOORE: Okay. I actually don’t know if I can have this conversation without some puke in the mouth.

[0:07:59.4] ERIN LINEHAN: If it was rotten tomatoes or the dry pellets, the dry pellets for sure. If it’s the gelatinous substance around salmon urgh.

[0:08:10.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because I was thinking, okay what if you put it in a pan? If you put it in a pan and would that affect how –

[0:08:18.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Keep going with that.

[0:08:19.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The equation of okay, how bad is the cat food if you mix it in with some mayonnaise.

[0:08:24.6] ERIN LINEHAN: No. Hell, no.

[0:08:26.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: And celery and do some cat food tuna salad?

[0:08:28.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Get out. Anna just got kicked out of the session.

[0:08:32.5] AMY MOORE: I am begging. Wait. Anna, would you choose wet cat food in a can over a rotten tomato?

[0:08:41.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is what I’m trying to decide. I’m trying to weigh it.

[0:08:44.6] AMY MOORE: What if you could not doctor up either one?

[0:08:47.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay, how rotten are the tomatoes? Do they have mold? Are they like –

[0:08:52.6] AMY MOORE: They’re squishy. They have some black oozing liquid coming out.

[0:08:57.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, come on. Come on. I’m thinking worst cast scenario for both of these things.

[0:09:02.9] AMY MOORE: Okay, which would it be? Which would it be? Pick a decision.

[0:09:06.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. I would make a tuna salad cat –

[0:09:08.7] AMY MOORE: No, no, no, no. No doctoring up. Just answer.

[0:09:11.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, no doctoring.

[0:09:12.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Straight form.

[0:09:14.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do you have to eat the whole cat food?

[0:09:16.1] AMY MOORE: Just answer it.

[0:09:16.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Straight form.

[0:09:18.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Tomatoes.

[0:09:19.3] AMY MOORE: Me too.

[0:09:20.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, I can’t do cat food.

[0:09:21.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just the smell.

[0:09:22.9] AMY MOORE: Well, I’m glad we got that out of the way.

[0:09:24.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, my God.

[0:09:26.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I want to say that is not my favorite question.

[0:09:29.4] AMY MOORE: Here we are –

[0:09:30.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Why? The visual? The visceral?

[0:09:32.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I can’t. I can’t. I can’t.

[0:09:34.4] AMY MOORE: You didn’t need to say gelatinous substance.

[0:09:37.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Up the anti.

[0:09:39.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well it’s like, okay if you think a worst-case scenario for both of them, that’s what really changes it and/or the quantity. You know what I mean? There’s a lot open to interpretation.

[0:09:48.9] ERIN LINEHAN: From the cat food. What would you do then?

[0:09:52.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, cat food is already bad.

[0:09:52.5] AMY MOORE: We’re going to stop. We’re going to stop. We have so much good stuff to talk about.

[0:09:56.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[0:09:58.1] AMY MOORE: We have so much good stuff to talk about.

[0:10:00.1] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s running this in, folks. Good call. Good call.

[0:10:01.0] AMY MOORE: Here we are. Here we are, ladies. Here we are. Yeah.

[0:10:05.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We can spend an hour debating this.

[0:10:06.5] AMY MOORE: Okay. Now we’re going to stop.

[0:10:09.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Now we’re going to stop.

[0:10:11.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re going to edit some of that out.

[0:10:11.4] AMY MOORE: Feather Berkower has so many great resources available to people. If you google her and find – you can find all of them. At the end of our interview, there were two resources that she mentioned that were two different books by the same author and the author is Gavin de Becker. One book is titled Protecting the Gift: Keeping Children and Teenagers Safe and Parents Sane. The other book is titled The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence.

Okay, so lots of great stuff came up from the interview with Feather. I know for the three of us, we’ve been talking so much about intuition. Really, we want to focus this episode around our connection to our intuition, or just in general connection to intuition and what is that. I think –

[0:11:07.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That I end that idea of the connection to trusting your gut and what is that all about.

[0:11:13.3] AMY MOORE: Right. Yes. Trusting your gut. Yeah, definitely.

[0:11:17.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The whole trust your gut, it’s become such a trite thing to hear, but it’s like, what does that really mean? What does that look like?

[0:11:25.9] AMY MOORE: Feel like?

[0:11:27.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, exactly. How do you go from possibly having a situation where you’ve been in where you can’t trust your gut, or you feel you trusted your gut and it led you astray? How do you gain that trust back?

[0:11:40.0] AMY MOORE: Well, but I think that actually wraps into the fear though too. I know I’m talking about this fear thing, but is there a point where fear isn’t a gift any longer and it’s overriding something? Or trust your gut, yes always. I don’t know. How do you even –

[0:12:04.8] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a good change in tone to get the question mark up and the [inaudible 0:12:07.5]. Well done, Amy. Yeah.

[0:12:10.5] AMY MOORE: Thank you.

[0:12:11.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Up with the voice. Well then.

[0:12:13.3] AMY MOORE: Yes. Thank you to my acting – my voice acting coach.

[0:12:16.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right.

[0:12:19.6] AMY MOORE: Anna, what do you think? What do you think about that?

[0:12:22.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s the question?

[0:12:23.5] AMY MOORE: The question is I actually – 

[0:12:29.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, no.

[0:12:29.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. There was a lot of talking. We’re talking about intuition and the question of fear. I mean, yeah, intuition and fear and how that they link together.

[0:12:37.7] AMY MOORE: My first question was what are your thoughts around fear being a gift, rather than a negative? I know you’re really hooked into this trust your gut being trite, or intuition. However you want to –

[0:12:51.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Fear versus intuition and what that looks like. Yeah, I said trusting your gut. I feel it’s often said. It’s a wonderful thing to say. It’s a wonderful thing to think, or believe. What does that look like? I feel the question that I want to answer is what’s the difference between fear and intuition? How are they different and how are they similar possibly, right?

Fear almost feels like intuition gone overboard in a way. Or it almost feels like it’s something completely out of my control that’s running on its own. Whereas intuition, I associate with more, or this idea of trusting your gut is more of a positive. That’s how I’m separating them, where I feel the fear has more of a negative connotation towards – to me in my head. I’m viewing them as two separate things. Fear almost running on its own.

[0:13:48.0] AMY MOORE: Do you think you control your intuition?

[0:13:51.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I don’t think so. I think that’s the beauty of it, honestly, is the intuition is something we know. It’s something that I already know and it’s more of a practice of listening to that and honing it and paying attention to it, because I feel so much of my life has – or when I’ve not trusted my gut for example, has been me ignoring the gut feeling, or the messy, non-convenient parts of what my gut is telling me. Because a lot of times, I find that I ignore my intuition because it’s more complicated what it’s asking me to do.

[0:14:31.9] AMY MOORE: You want to give an example of when you didn’t listen to your gut, or it being a complicated situation?

[0:14:39.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I mean –

[0:14:40.9] AMY MOORE: We can come back to it too, but –

[0:14:41.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Without getting too personal, maybe just the idea of not speaking up in situations where it’s like, I feel a pull. I have social anxiety. A lot of times, I’ll feel a pull to say something and then I don’t say something. It’s something that well, I guess fear is leading the show in that situation. If I feel a pull to do something and then I don’t do it, I feel I’m not trusting my intuition or my gut that’s asking me to do something, so just as an everyday example.

[0:15:16.4] AMY MOORE: Would you say that pull that you feel is intuition?

[0:15:20.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: To me, that’s what it looks like. It looks a pull to do something and it looks like a hook in me. There’s something that’s saying, “Hey, Anna. Pay attention to me over here.” It’s my choice if I say, “Oh, shut up. Hush. I’m not paying attention to you right now. What you want would complicate my situation.” 

I always regret it if I don’t listen to it. I think about that quote, I believe Rumi said it. Is that how say R-U-M-I? Of what you seek is also seeking you. That’s intuition, the pull, the hook. That’s what it looks like for me in my life. What about you two?

[0:15:56.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I was thinking about fear is I think ultimately in our brains a primal thing. It’s setup for survival. If we were in cavemen days, let’s say and we were hunting and gathering and our brains needed to be aware of what was happening around us so that we could – if a saber-toothed tiger jumped out of a bush, then we could have a response. Then we can respond, so we could fight, flight, freeze, whatever the responses are that we would do. I think fear has a lot to do with survival.

[0:16:31.1] AMY MOORE: That is in a specific part of the brain too.

[0:16:32.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Very specific part of the brain. Then I also think if in terms of fear and situations that an intuition and fear in situations that could harm us, I think intuitively we feel that something is not right. That brings a fearful feeling within our body. I think that when those things are happening, if we don’t listen to it because we’re trying to be polite like Feather talks about, or we’re trying to fall into social rules or whatever, then if something bad happens then our nervous systems get overwhelmed and then in our systems, like what wires together fires together. 

Then fear is then linked in with situations that we need to be because we didn’t listen to it before, so then it gets more sensitive and our alarm system. If you think about it, your information comes into your brain and then it’s like, if we want to simplify it, put it into two compartments, right? One is things functioning normally and one is like, “Oh, shit. We need to be aware of what’s happening.” That gatekeeper then gets either really, really sensitive when we’ve had an intuitive hit on something and fear has been involved. If something bad has happened, then that part of our brain gets a lot more sensitive and then things just get directed into the fear column, even if it’s not scared. Does that make sense?

[0:18:01.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah, so rather than going into the normal side, just because it’s so overwhelmed –

[0:18:05.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Because our nervous systems were overwhelmed at some point, so that’s what trauma is, right? Our nervous system got overwhelmed. A lot of times when people have had traumatic experience, oftentimes they may or may not have a bad feeling that something bad was going to happen with me. Is this making sense?

[0:18:19.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:18:20.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Sometimes I get lost on things, so keep me in check on that. Then when things have been linked in that way and then something bad happens, then going forward, so after the incident happens and then going forward, our system thinks that there’s real tigers all over the place, when really there’s just paper tigers all over the place. Our system acts like that. Then fear gets over-activated and we have to be able to decipher what is fear versus intuition. This is not a plug for my course, but it’s going to sound like it. People –

[0:18:52.4] AMY MOORE: You can plug your course.

[0:18:53.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It’s something [inaudible 0:18:53.9]. Plug that.

[0:18:55.6] AMY MOORE: Exactly.

[0:18:56.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I did a course, a free course on our website. Not on Less Alone, but on thekaliinstitute.com. That talks about how to recognize intuition and then how to get in touch with it, because a lot of people are like, “I don’t understand how you get in touch with intuition and what the hell that thing is.” It’s five videos that walks you through how do I do this.

[0:19:15.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s that called, so they can find it?

[0:19:18.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good question. We’ll put it in the show notes. We’ll link to the freebie course on that. It’s just interesting that I think that that has a lot to do with fear and intuition in the same type of thing. 

I think fear is usually something that unless it’s over-activated, it’s like this thing is going to harm me. Intuition is a whisper sometimes to make a different decision, or a nudge, or a hook, or a pull to take you in the direction that maybe you’re supposed to go. Intuition I think doesn’t necessarily – it can be show up when fear – you can be like, “I should do this and I’m scared shitless to do it.” That could be like, “It’s not necessarily going to harm me.”

That intuition is just our – If we can tap into that and know what it feels like in our bodies particularly, then that can be the rudder that steers us. Because I don’t know – I think oftentimes, people are afraid not related to Feather stuff, but afraid that they’re going to make the wrong decisions. If they listen to that gut, so we need to learn how to tap into that then I think that it doesn’t really steer us wrong. If it steers us over here, it’s because we had something to learn. For me –

[0:20:24.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We like that.

[0:20:26.4] ERIN LINEHAN: For me, anytime that intuition has shown up repeatedly and I need to hear something, it will always show up as a whisper and like, “Hey, hey. Have you thought about this?” Or I’ll see whatever and then it will start up –

[0:20:40.3] AMY MOORE: That’s so loving.

[0:20:42.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that it’s coming from – in my belief system, I I think that it’s coming from universe, right? Then like, “Hey. Hey, listen.” Then it starts off and then it gets louder and louder and louder and then it’s like a scream like, “Hey, I’m going to make this decision.”

[0:20:54.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bitch. Listen up.

[0:20:55.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Bitch, listen. Yeah. Totally.

[0:20:57.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That sound as I hear. You’re not listening. Gosh.

[0:21:01.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Like when I needed to – I think, I don’t know how many years. Maybe six years ago, but when I started to meditate, I heard it probably from, oh, I don’t know, seven people and I’m, “Oh, my God”, that I needed to meditate.

[0:21:18.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I hear that shit all the time.

[0:21:19.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Then it was like on billboards on every – well, maybe because they were tapped and Facebook popped up, but that’s probably because they were fucking listening.

[0:21:25.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They were listening.

[0:21:26.0] ERIN LINEHAN: All these places and then this person talking about meditation. This wasn’t. I’m like, “Oh, my God. I hear you.”

[0:21:32.2] AMY MOORE: That’s interesting, because that’s not coming from inside.

[0:21:34.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Huh?

[0:21:35.1] AMY MOORE: That’s not coming from inside, intuition.

[0:21:38.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s her paying attention to it.

[0:21:39.6] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s where my awareness is.

[0:21:42.0] AMY MOORE: I think that’s a really important thing to point out.

[0:21:45.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is so interesting how this conversation is evolving, because I don’t link fear and intuition together just naturally.

[0:21:51.5] AMY MOORE: I know. You really don’t like – I know.

[0:21:54.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Naturally. What about you? Were you done, Erin?

[0:22:00.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I would say, so what do you think about your getting it that you get intuitive hits off something, but you’re scared to act on those intuitive hits?

[0:22:07.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, that’s a good point. Yeah, that would be fear, I guess.

[0:22:11.1] AMY MOORE: Fear in response to your intuition though, because that’s also a different thing to clarify. Because it’s not that fear –

[0:22:18.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: See, I wouldn’t put fear and intuition side by side. I put fear on top of intuition and not wanting to act on it. Do you see what I’m saying?

[0:22:25.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Can you clarify that?

[0:22:25.9] AMY MOORE:  I think so.

[0:22:28.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The way we’ve been talking about fear and intuition is that they’re side by side, like they’re neighbors. Whereas, I think of fear as living in the house of intuition and wanting me to not act, because I’m scared of the result.

[0:22:42.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I think of fear as a survival mechanism.

[0:22:43.4] AMY MOORE: Me too. I think of fear as a protector. I think of intuition as a protector. I feel like –

[0:22:52.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. That’s how they are the same.

[0:22:54.5] AMY MOORE: That’s how I see them to be the same.

[0:22:56.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Who is a clarifier now? Amy. Yeah.

[0:22:59.9] AMY MOORE: Let me try it.

[0:23:02.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s good.

[0:23:03.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You all think is the karaoke going, you all are singing into these microphones like we’re a freaking Friday night karaoke bar.

[0:23:10.4] AMY MOORE: That would be our next venture.

[0:23:12.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, no it’s not ever.

[0:23:14.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, did I just have been do open mic karaoke night.

[0:23:18.5] AMY MOORE: Come listen to the trio. Less Alone.

[0:23:21.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Don’t do that ever.

[0:23:23.3] AMY MOORE: Ooh, plug your ears.

[0:23:25.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Sorry. Keep going.

[0:23:26.9] AMY MOORE: My thoughts about intuition, or what?

[0:23:29.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:23:30.2] AMY MOORE: Okay. Okay.

[0:23:32.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Who? Me?

[0:23:34.2] AMY MOORE: Yes. You talk. Okay. I do think that when I think about fear, I think of it as a signal. When I think about intuition, I think about it as a signal. I think both come from within, but I definitely have had times in my life where I have a gut feeling where I don’t know if it’s what you’re saying about the hook, but I feel – it’s just this nagging. It’s not necessarily physiological, but sometimes it has been.

[0:24:09.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What does that look like?

[0:24:09.9] ERIN LINEHAN: The gut-brain connection is big.

[0:24:12.5] AMY MOORE: Just my stomach doesn’t feel right. Really physiologically, whether that’s, I don’t know.

[0:24:22.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You get the runs or something?

[0:24:28.1] AMY MOORE: I’m not going to answer that question.

[0:24:29.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin’s just shaking her head.

[0:24:31.4] AMY MOORE: I would say though that yeah. I mean, my stomach could get upset. I could have pain in my stomach. I mean, I have whatever. Okay. Thank you. Then also, not necessarily physiologically, but just inside this –

[0:24:45.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin hates me.

[0:24:47.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t hate her.

[0:24:48.0] AMY MOORE: I’m just trying to talk and I’m just watching Anna, watch Erin.

[0:24:51.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m sorry.

[0:24:52.8] AMY MOORE: No, no, no. We’re good. Totally good. I think that intuition is yes, signals. I have had recent experience of a relationship, where I had a gut feeling, like something wasn’t right. Man, that for me it was a nagging. There was a nagging. Something wasn’t right, something wasn’t right. I would turn into a real bitch, frankly. Or I would check in and be like, “What is up? Oh, why do I feel so whatever, disconnected, or whatever it might be. 

It’s like, I knew that. I felt that inside somewhere, but I wouldn’t say it was necessarily fear that didn’t make me act. It was something else, which I don’t know yet. It’s come to find out, there really was a lot going on that I was not privy to, or aware of. Now I’m like, “Oh, my God.” It’s like, hindsight is 20-20, right? It’s like, “Holy cow.”

[0:25:59.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then when you do confront it, or do act on it and you’re in that specific situation or in other ones and if someone tells you, “No, no, no, no, no. You’re mistaken.” What effect does that then have on that gut feeling?

[0:26:15.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, by not listening what happened.

[0:26:18.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How does that affect that?

[0:26:19.8] AMY MOORE: Crazy town. That’s what happens. I think that –

[0:26:24.5] ERIN LINEHAN: When you’re in crazy town, what does that look like for the help of our listeners, because this is not an uncommon experience for people.

[0:26:30.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think for me, I had this gut, I had this gut. I’m like, “What is wrong?” There’s disconnect. I’ve lost you. Blah, blah, blah. It’s like, no. Everything’s fine. Or even sometimes it would be almost like, I have the problem here. For me, crazy town looked like, “Holy crap. What is wrong with me? Or what have I been – am I making shit up in my head?” I guess, not necessarily having the awareness in the moment where I’m like, something’s wrong with my intuition. I never had that clear of a thought –

[0:27:11.8] ERIN LINEHAN: But it’s very real.

[0:27:13.1] AMY MOORE: But it’s very real. Yeah.

[0:27:14.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It seems an undermining of that instinct.

[0:27:18.4] AMY MOORE: Yes. I think of very common, right?

[0:27:20.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that’s what it is for people though is that they – because there’s no tangible proof that there’s nothing that you can touch. Hey, they point to this thing and so that I think is where the crazy-making part is, because it’s like, something is – 

[0:27:36.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so abstract.

[0:27:37.4] AMY MOORE: It is.

[0:27:37.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s the crazy-making part, is that it’s abstract.

[0:27:40.3] AMY MOORE: Here’s the thing that I think is very interesting and that I’m really grateful for is that in the end, I got something tangible. I think that’s a real gift for my intuition, because it’s a big deal and I feel for the people out there who don’t get that. They don’t have the 20-20 in hindsight. It’s like, I did. I got to see. Holy cow.

To be honest, the end of this particular situation, I did listen to my gut. I finally did have to say it’s either this or that. I knew I did not want to exist in crazy town anymore. Whether my gut was right, wrong, right or indifferent, it was I was not being able to be sane. I just wasn’t and I was so unhappy. I’m really grateful that now it’s like, okay, I now know, I can trust my gut. What a gift.

[0:28:39.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a gift.

[0:28:40.0] AMY MOORE: It’s a gift, because I know a lot of people who live for a long time and frankly, that undermining is happening so often.

[0:28:49.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. A lot of times, it’s a word that has been in coming up lately is the gas lighting. That’s often, you can google it and find out more about what that looks like, but it is such an insidious thing where someone –

[0:29:02.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Essentially, can I just give a little –

[0:29:05.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:29:05.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Essentially, if you say – like let’s say, Amy’s drinking out of a black water bottle right now. Amy knows that that water bottle’s black, but then if I tell her no, that water bottle is white and Anna says no, that water bottle is white and Amy’s like, “No, it’s black.” We’re like, “No, Amy. That water bottle is white.” We repeatedly tell her that, then she makes like, “Fuck, maybe I don’t know. What?”

[0:29:28.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wait, is that black?

[0:29:29.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Is it? Yes.

[0:29:32.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That was my acting.

[0:29:33.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good acting. You do the good acting.

[0:29:34.2] AMY MOORE: Good job, Anna.

[0:29:35.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: But does that make sense? Does that explain –

[0:29:37.5] AMY MOORE: You get an Oscar.

[0:29:38.1] ERIN LINEHAN: All right. Great. Keep going.

[0:29:39.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I get an Oscar.

[0:29:40.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Keep going.

[0:29:41.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’d like to thank…

[0:29:43.2] AMY MOORE: By the way, I do have a black water bottle in studio.

[0:29:46.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, that’s just the example. Yes. Yeah. Oh, but it’s white, Amy.

[0:29:50.1] AMY MOORE: No.

[0:29:51.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Yes. Keep going. You were talking, Anna.

[0:29:53.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I forgot what I was telling.

[0:29:55.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think there is something with fear. I’m going to try to circle this back to fear, because I also think that again, that signal of fear, I got to get out of here. I feel intuition, I have to be moving a little bit slower in life and I need to be in one of my most best selves, right? Able and open to listen to intuition.

[0:30:19.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it’s more gentle and subtle. Yes. Fear is urgent.

[0:30:24.0] AMY MOORE: Fear is like, “You got to get the fuck out of here.”

[0:30:26.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Urgent. Urgent. I think that’s a difference.

[0:30:29.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah, and I appreciate fear. Frankly, I do agree with what Erin, you are saying about it can become so over-activated. Then everything goes into fear. I’ve lived in that place before in my life, where there’s these triggers and they’re, “Oh.” My immediate reaction is freak out, fear. 

Then I think I have also heard a term often about well, it’s either faith or fear. I do think for me being able to come down from fear, okay, yes, I get this response. It’s fear. Move it. I got to move it, or I don’t and then whatever I choose to do. Either way, faith in the end – Also, I have to say that I do think that a lot of intuition is somehow related to spirituality.

[0:31:22.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I agree.

[0:31:23.6] AMY MOORE: I do.

[0:31:24.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. For people –

[0:31:25.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Wait. Hold on. Sorry. No, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but I wanted to comment.

[0:31:28.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thanks, Erin.

[0:31:29.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry, but I wanted to comment on something.

[0:31:31.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:31:31.8] ERIN LINEHAN: You were talking about fear and faith. I think that they are not mutually exclusive, fear and faith. I think that there is often this thing where you have to have faith, or you just not be scared. It’s never about not feeling your feelings. It’s about feeling your feelings. This I get real, real fired up about this, because there’s so much of like, “Oh, just push the fear aside.” Well, it’s telling you something.

[0:31:52.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. It’s a messenger.

[0:31:54.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. What –

[0:31:54.8] AMY MOORE: It’s a signal.

[0:31:55.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Maybe if it is overactive, then what is underneath driving that, then acknowledging that, noticing it there, like sitting down having a cup of tea with fear like, “Hey, dude. You’re here. What are you trying to tell me?” Figuring out that way, right? To not ignore it. This is not in my opinion, not compartmentalizing that you can have faith like, “Okay, I believe this is working out.” I’m shitting my pants, because I have to make this decision, or I have to do this thing. It’s the end. The end comes up ever.

[0:32:25.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It keeps coming up.

[0:32:26.8] AMY MOORE: It is.

[0:32:27.7] ERIN LINEHAN: You need to feel the feelings. You don’t need to stay trapped in the feelings, but it’s really important to feel the feelings, because they’re there for information.

[0:32:34.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s like, the idea of fear getting a seat on the bus, but not driving the damn bus.

[0:32:39.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Parts work.

[0:32:41.7] AMY MOORE: Actually, I was going to ask Erin, will you explain the bus? Because I think that is such a helpful –

[0:32:48.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, could you send that shit, right?

[0:32:49.0] AMY MOORE: Visual.

[0:32:49.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, maybe.

[0:32:50.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think you did, right?

[0:32:53.5] AMY MOORE: You said this to me a bunch.

[0:32:54.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Then there’s this whole type of therapy called internal family systems and they do parts work. I am not trained in internal family systems, but –

[0:33:01.6] AMY MOORE: You’re not giving advice.

[0:33:02.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m not giving advice. My business partner is trained, so we talk about internal family systems because I think it’s amazing work and you should look into it, right?

[0:33:10.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Actually, Crystal has helped me, because I’m her client.

[0:33:13.3] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s turned into that. Yes. It’s amazing.

[0:33:15.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s freaking crazy. Awesome.

[0:33:18.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. If you think –

[0:33:21.7] AMY MOORE: 10/10 recommend.

[0:33:25.2] ERIN LINEHAN: 10/10 recommend. Oh, good lord. Okay. Okay.

[0:33:31.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Family systems.

[0:33:32.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. It’s awesome. It’s like, that we have all these different parts. This is not a multiple personalities. Nothing. This is what we all have different parts, because of things that have happened to us in our life.

[0:33:41.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have to say, having done this work with Crystal, it did feel like, oh, my word. Are we getting into multiple personalities? It feels like that.

[0:33:49.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, but it’s not crazy town.

[0:33:50.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No.

[0:33:51.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I was listening to Jonathan Van Ness, you know I love Queer Eye. He’s the groomer on Queer Eye, but he just put out a book called Over the Top.

[0:33:58.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Groomer. That makes it sound that he’s like grooming –

[0:34:00.9] ERIN LINEHAN: No, he is there is all sorts of things with people’s hair.

[0:34:06.5] AMY MOORE: Stylist probably.

[0:34:08.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Stylist. Yeah. He talks about grooming. That’s the title. In the book for his therapy, he did parts work. He talks about parts work throughout this whole book, which I love.

[0:34:18.0] AMY MOORE: Just a quick clarification. I don’t know why I keep saying that word this episode, but anyway.

[0:34:22.8] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re clarifying a lot of things.

[0:34:23.9] AMY MOORE: Parts meaning?

[0:34:26.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Different parts of ourselves.

[0:34:27.4] AMY MOORE: Different feelings within ourselves?

[0:34:29.0] ERIN LINEHAN: No. Different parts of our personalities, different parts of who we are.

[0:34:31.5] AMY MOORE: Okay. Past, present, future?

[0:34:33.7] ERIN LINEHAN: All of that.

[0:34:34.2] AMY MOORE: Okay.

[0:34:34.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Maybe future. Yeah. Anyways, the concept of driving the bus. If we have a bus and you’re driving along, you want the adult part of you, the self-energy to be driving that bus. I don’t know what all the Cs are, but I think they’re compassionate, curious, caring, what are some other C words? A bunch of C words that are driving the bus. This is in this loving presence that you can just be in, like your best self, right? We all have this self-energy.

Then because of how our life has showed up, then we have all these different parts. I have a three-year-old part. I have a six-year-old part. I also have an angry teenager. I have a shameful part. I have whatever all the different parts are.

[0:35:16.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have a very skeptical part that was very questioning all these parts should.

[0:35:21.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a protective part. When we think about the different parts, and so all of the parts you can’t kick anybody off the island, right? Or you can’t kick anyone and be like, “Oh, you were misbehaving on the bus. Get out.” 

That’s not how this works. If you think about it, so we want that self-energy to be driving the bus. If that self-energy is not taking care of business the way that these parts think that it needs to take care of it, so if our adult self is not stepping forward, then these little parts step in.

For me, I would never – if I get triggered by something that is related to my three-year-old self, then I don’t want my three-year-old self driving the bus, because who wants a three-year-old driving the bus? No one, right?

[0:36:02.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They do not know how to drive well.

[0:36:04.6] ERIN LINEHAN: They do not know how to drive well.

[0:36:05.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They’re driving all this shit.

[0:36:07.8] ERIN LINEHAN: They can’t even see over the steering wheel. Or I don’t want my –

[0:36:12.1] AMY MOORE: I think emotionally if you’re a three-year-old, then you’re emotionally totally out of whack and crazy.

[0:36:20.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, throwing temper tantrums. Although, I do wish that I could throw temper tantrums in the middle of Target sometimes and then you just get it out of your system and then you’re done. That’d be great. Anyways, so I’m not suggesting to do that by the way, but it’d be nice, right?

[0:36:31.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Probably get arrested.

[0:36:33.9] AMY MOORE: Probably.

[0:36:35.9] AMY MOORE: One of 10 do not recommend that.

[0:36:40.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Who brought her? Okay, so did that help explain it? Who is driving your bus? If you feel like, “I feel so off. What is happening right now?” I’d been crazy.

[0:36:50.2] AMY MOORE: You don’t want to ignore that.

[0:36:51.1] ERIN LINEHAN: You don’t want to ignore it, and so you want to be turned to like hey, what are you trying to tell me? Why are you here right now? It’s like, okay, well.

[0:36:58.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. Get out of the seat.

[0:37:00.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m scared that you were making this bad decision and then this is going to make us not have retirement money when we’re in the future, whatever the thing is. Then it’s like, okay, I understand your concerns and I have this taken care of. What do I need to do to help you feel okay? Then I’m going to then, you can go and relax in the back of the bus.

[0:37:16.6] AMY MOORE: Right. Your best self is almost having a conversation with these parts. Then it’s you hear them, you acknowledge them.

[0:37:25.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You give them a voice.

[0:37:26.5] AMY MOORE: You give them a voice.

[0:37:27.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s so interesting –

[0:37:28.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s like re-parenting.

[0:37:30.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. When I did this work with Crystal, your business partner, it was so wild, because so I was questioning, even the EMDR. How does this work? She was just so validating walking me through the process. That’s what a great therapist does.

She was like, “Okay, what does this part need to hear? Can we have this part of you sit next to you?” It was so trippy. Then I said to that part – she walked me through this whole thing. It was wild. I had never done this with the therapist before. It was like, “Hey, I hear you. I know you’re skeptical about this shit right now, but I can handle this and I know you’re trying to keep me safe and I want you to sit next to me and we’ll do this together. 

If anything comes up, you tell me and we’ll deal with it then. You’re going to see her next to me and trust that I am safe here with Crystal as I work through this.”

[0:38:27.7] AMY MOORE: It’s so beautiful.

[0:38:28.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: So kind and so loving. Just like, I can make space for this fear and it can have a seat, but that motherfucker is not driving this damn bus. I need to be on the road to healing and dealing with this stuff. It was just so kind.

[0:38:46.5] ERIN LINEHAN: When my therapist did – when I didn’t exercise with that, I have this part called my Frida part, as in Frida Kahlo which is it’s this badass part that gets things done. I’m like, “Who can I name this after?” I’m like, “Frida for sure.” 

My Frida is who I thought my adult self was, to get shit done, be productive, do things, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff. Then I realized like, “Oh, this is a part of me.” My therapist had me take that part and set it to the side of me.

I don’t know that I have been – nothing happens. Physically nothing happened, right? She had me in session do the same thing and have that part sitting next to me. I have never been so scared in my body like, “Oh, my God.” Because I felt super exposed and super vulnerable. The work, point being is very, very powerful. That’s the only way that I differentiated that it’s like, “Oh, this is a part of me.” When people are like, “That’s just how I am.” No, that’s just how a part of you is.

[0:39:38.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Crystal also helped me recognize this younger part of me. This is all the parts, work and stuff. Ask that younger self, this middle school self version of me, what does she have to tell you?

[0:39:54.4] AMY MOORE: Well, and I think about that –

[0:39:55.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That work is so good with people.

[0:39:56.6] AMY MOORE: I think about that in terms of the re-parenting,  where it’s so often, or I feel lately there’s just been a lot about mother yourself. Care for yourself. How would you mother your child in this situation or whatever?

[0:40:11.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How would treat yourself in this situation? How would you mother yourself –

[0:40:16.6] ERIN LINEHAN: If you’re three-year-old’s in the driver’s seat, or your six-year-old or whatever, you wouldn’t be like, you need to go fucking away, right? You’d be like, “Oh, hey. Tell me.” You’d scoop up that part of you and then you’d set that part on your lap and you’d tap them on the back like, okay. You would calm them and then soothe them.

[0:40:30.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s nice that you want to drive.

[0:40:34.8] AMY MOORE: You’d go buckle them into their safety seat.

[0:40:36.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Like, “Hey, tell me what’s going on.” Then it’s like, “Okay, are we good? Do you need anything else? Oh, you need some juice. Here you go.” Yeah, and then you buckle them in and you’re like, “I’m right here. I’m just going to be driving and you could be in your own space.” It’s how you handle that. Yes.

[0:40:49.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Also, the visual too of this part sitting next to you.

[0:40:55.2] AMY MOORE: It’s so great. It is really, really. You know what? It’s not just a whole bunch of hearsay. There’s science behind this, right? The science behind the validity of our intuition or gut feelings. The question, should we trust our gut? I guess how can we transition from driving the bus to that?

[0:41:20.7] ERIN LINEHAN: We just do it.

[0:41:21.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We just do it.

[0:41:22.8] ERIN LINEHAN: You just did it.

[0:41:23.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, I think to talk about that when we would not trust our gut, why would we not trust our gut? I think it’s because –

[0:41:31.7] AMY MOORE: Maybe because you wouldn’t acknowledge the feeling you mean, or the part of that self that’s coming up? Or no?

[0:41:38.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Did I lose you? I’m kidding. I can see a confused face. Okay, so –

[0:41:42.0] AMY MOORE: Do you have an answer to the question that you’re already going to ask?

[0:41:45.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I think she does.

[0:41:46.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes, that’ show I do it.

[0:41:46.6] AMY MOORE: Go for it.

[0:41:48.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Just a part of Anna.

[0:41:49.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is how I do it. I ask a good question and I post it to you guys and I actually have the answer I want to say.

[0:41:54.2] AMY MOORE: It’s not ever the exact question.

[0:41:56.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know. I’m working through this.

[0:41:58.4] AMY MOORE: That’s okay.

[0:41:59.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay.

[0:41:59.6] AMY MOORE: Just say it.

[0:42:00.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I guess what I’m trying to say is, I think the reason we would maybe not trust our gut is because we’ve been hurt and we feel it’s been – it’s led us to stray in the past. It’s like, you know the example you gave earlier about being in a situation where you kept being told, “No, no, no. No, no, no. You’re mistaken.” The whole gaslighting situation. It’s like, how do you then trust yourself again?

[0:42:26.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Because the decision might be when you went into this, it might have been the right decision for you, but then you have no control over the other person. There is free will and the other person can do whatever the other person wants to do. We might have whole heart have been like, this feels really good in my gut. 

Then something happened either with this situation, or the other person, or whatever happened, then you believed that it was safe and good then it was. Maybe it was for – it probably was for a little bit and then something shifted and that’s where I think those two things get fired and wired together in a lot of cases, right?

[0:43:01.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then do you think people then associate, “Oh, gosh. Here, I trusted my gut and it led me astray.”

[0:43:05.9] ERIN LINEHAN: When really like –

[0:43:07.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Now I can’t trust that.

[0:43:07.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Maybe it was not a great situation going into, right? However, a lot of times it is the right thing and then something shifts, but we’re too –

[0:43:17.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It becomes a wrong decision.

[0:43:18.1] ERIN LINEHAN: It becomes a wrong thing. For whatever reason, it’s hard to get out. Yes. This article.

[0:43:24.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. We’ve got a quote here that says – this is from the bigthink.com Phillip Perry, do you follow your gut? “Scientists are zeroing in on where intuition comes from biologically”, okay. The answer is yes, you should trust it. Previous research has shown that when it comes to decision-making, going with your gut usually makes for a better outcome, than if we go on intellect alone. That’s a pretty big deal.

[0:44:01.1] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a huge deal.

[0:44:02.0] AMY MOORE: It’s a huge deal. Huge deal. This was January 2018. Okay, so there is one other article that I want to share too. This is a little bit more current. It’s August 2019 and it is by Laura Kutsch and published in scientificamerican.com. It says, “One thing is clear, intuition and rationality are not necessarily opposites. Rather, it is advantageous to master both intuition and analytic skills. Let us not follow our inner voice blindly, but let us not underestimate it either.”

[0:44:42.9] ERIN LINEHAN: So good.

[0:44:44.0] AMY MOORE: It’s so good. I mean, I think it’s just so powerful that there’s just – there’s science coming out to now back up what so many –

[0:44:52.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Already know.

[0:44:53.7] AMY MOORE: Exactly.

[0:44:54.4] ERIN LINEHAN: All this research on you all. All this research on meditation, that’s been happening for forever.

[0:44:58.8] AMY MOORE: Well and then you think about mediums and stuff. It’s how they –

[0:45:03.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, because that’s a whole different ball of wax, and so we can do an entire episode on –

[0:45:07.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Which we should.

[0:45:08.0] ERIN LINEHAN: We should. Absolutely.

[0:45:09.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. The bottom line with this, the connecting to our gut, the connecting to those signals, the connecting to the intuition, I feel it comes down to the best advice in whatever situation is what we already know. It’s all about getting to that listening stage and trusting it.

[0:45:29.9] ERIN LINEHAN: If it’s hard for you to trust yourself, then there’s probably work that needs to be done around that.

[0:45:35.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, and that’s okay.

[0:45:36.1] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s okay. Yes. Absolutely, it’s okay. Yeah.

[0:45:38.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel it takes practice. In all of these things that we’ve talked about today, it’s the practice of trying it out and especially if you feel you’ve been burned by your intuition or your gut. It’s like, okay, maybe I start with something little and just ease into it, try it out, practice, try again.

[0:45:59.5] ERIN LINEHAN: To go back to Feather, right? When she was talking about trusting your gut, if it feels weird, it probably is weird.

[0:46:05.8] AMY MOORE: Exactly. Exactly.

[0:46:07.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s the breakdown of that. If it feels weird, it probably is weird. To go in and just ask questions about whatever is happening, because whoever the perpetrator is is that you’re not an easy target then and they’re most likely going to avoid you. If you haven’t listened to that Feather episode, go back and listen to it. It was very, very, very helpful.

[0:46:25.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, and I think, so empowering to know by simply questioning this behavior, that right there is enough of a deterrent to get that to stop, which is wonderful.

[0:46:38.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Amazing.

[0:46:39.1] AMY MOORE: I think it’s even fascinating to say the words, like sexual abuse, or sexual assault, or what are your policies around sexual assault against children.

[0:46:50.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s just enough.

[0:46:52.0] AMY MOORE: Yes, it’s a huge – Yeah. Yeah.

[0:46:54.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. We have these cards. Amy brought them today and they are available on parentingsafechildren.com. You can buy them there, right?

[0:47:04.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah, you can buy them there. Yeah.

[0:47:05.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a pack and it just has like, will you join our family’s prevention team? I think it’s such an easy way. I think it just feels awkward, right? To have this card and have this tool, that makes it such an easy way to broach the subject that’s like, “Oh, man.”

[0:47:25.9] ERIN LINEHAN: They just know. Then people just know that you’re –

[0:47:29.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re on it.

[0:47:30.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Thorough.

[0:47:30.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re paying attention.

[0:47:32.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Yes.

[0:47:33.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re not going to let it slide.

[0:47:35.3] AMY MOORE: Wait, I have to tell you this though. This is so exciting. After we interviewed Feather, my daughter wanted to have a playdate. I was like, “Great. Let’s do it.” I signed it up. I had never had a playdate with this particular family before, had this friend over. I just want you to know – I already asked her if I could share this on the podcast. I’ve met her. She was at a party of mine at one point, a barbecue or something. She was going to leave her daughter at my house without her there, so there was a new situation.

She said, I can read this again, but Skylar thank you. She wrote, “Good afternoon. I just wanted to check in on some things before her daughter comes over tomorrow afternoon. Please don’t be offended. I asked everyone this before and in-home playdate.”

[0:48:31.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, that’s so good.

[0:48:32.7] ERIN LINEHAN: This was Skylar. Good job. Yes, this is great.

[0:48:36.2] AMY MOORE: Okay. Then she says, “Are you escorting them on the walk home, or do your kids walk by yourself? Do you have firearms in your house? If so, where are they kept? Or are they kept locked? Do you have any medications that are easily accessible, or pill organizers lying around? Do you have marijuana edibles out? Does anyone else –”

[0:48:55.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Very important in Colorado.

[0:48:56.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. “Does anyone else live with you outside of your immediate unit?” Yeah. Then she says, “I’m sure I sound like a crazy lady. I’m happy to answer any of the same should your daughter come over to my house.” Then it said, her daughter’s really looking forward to it.

[0:49:12.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That is so great.

[0:49:12.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Good job. That’s great.

[0:49:13.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what I’d like to do? Can we take that text and put it in our show notes as a resource?

[0:49:20.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, let’s just –

[0:49:21.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because I feel it’s something that the language around it is something that is often like, “How do I broach that?” I really like how she sandwiched it between “nice things.”

[0:49:34.7] AMY MOORE: Or also with the buffer of, “Oh, I know I’m going to sound crazy, but.”

[0:49:38.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just calling it out.

[0:49:39.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah, and also saying like, “I ask everybody this.” Just normalizing it so much. Anyway, I was so excited of course. I was like, “Oh, my gosh. We just interviewed Feather.” She knew Feather.

[0:49:52.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s amazing.

[0:49:53.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. The timing was –

[0:49:55.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so great.

[0:49:55.5] AMY MOORE: It was really great. It was really great.

[0:49:57.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Great job.

[0:49:58.0] AMY MOORE: I got to say as a mom, I am like, “My daughter can go over to her house anytime. I know I can ask her any question.” It’s totally open book. Anyway, trust the gut.

[0:50:11.7] ERIN LINEHAN: How are you trusting your gut? I guess that –

[0:50:13.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, so our nugget.

[0:50:14.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, nugget. Do you have the nugget?

[0:50:15.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, the nugget is how do you pay attention to your gut? Make a note of what you hear or feel from your gut or intuition.

[0:50:25.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Practice it.

[0:50:26.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, practice it.

[0:50:28.1] AMY MOORE: Practice, practice, practice. All right.

[0:50:31.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Time to land the plane.

[0:50:32.8] AMY MOORE: Landed.

[0:50:34.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thanks. Bye.


[0:50:37.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We have a great new way for you to support the show. If you love what we’re doing, go hit up the Less Alone Podcast swag shop. We got so much awesome stuff. All the proceeds go to supporting the show, so we can create more awesome content for you. What stuff did you guys get?

[0:50:54.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I got the black sweatshirt and the green trucker hat.

[0:50:56.4] AMY MOORE: I got a white hoodie and a coffee cup.

[0:50:59.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. I got the hat and a shirt. It’s so cute. Go there at lessalonepodcast.com. Hit swag shop and get yourself hooked up.

[0:51:08.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Take a picture and tag us on Instagram, or any other social media and we’ll –

[0:51:13.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’ll repost it.

[0:51:14.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.


[0:51:18.4] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com. If you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.


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