EP22: Learning How to Bravely Walk Away from “The Perfect Body”

Learning How to Bravely Walk Away from "The Perfect Body" - Less Alone: A Podcast About Connection


“Get out da way! Fat girl needs to eat!” In this episode, we’re fired up and we’re goin’ hog jaw about: internalized fatphobia, How to Deprogram From Diet Culture, letting go of the mental obsession with diet and weight. Plus, we talk about: The Pied Piper of Candy, lovin’ on some buttercream, becoming friends with your body, how to shed the critical voice, high-five training, mindfulness vs. meditation, and how to add in some joyful movement to get to the ultimate goal of: full-body acceptance. 

This episode deep dives into the connection to our intuition and bodies so be sure to tune in! 

Links and Resources Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Intro and Outro Music Credit: Night Owl by Broke for Free from the Album Directionless EP (Creative Commons License)

P.S. Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!



[0:00:00.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The contents of this show are for educational, informational and entertainment purposes only. Any information on the show does not create a client-therapist relationship and should not be taken as professional advice. Before making any decisions regarding your healthcare, ask your personal physician, or mental healthcare professional, or call 911 for any emergencies.

[0:00:21.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.

[0:00:26.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.

[0:00:27.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.

[0:00:35.1] AMY MOORE: Hey, Anna.

[0:00:35.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You want to get out of debt? I can help you get out of debt so fast. Get yourself hooked up with the debt-free roadmap and it will walk you through all the steps. I want to help you get to where you want to be. Debtfreeroadmap.com.


[0:00:51.0] AMY MOORE: I mean, I would say that there was so much value in our conversation with Katie Garces.

[0:00:59.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes.

[0:01:00.8] AMY MOORE: Her whole thing about the health of mind, body, spirit. What I really respect about her is her openness to exploration and then her ability to share it with others. Yeah.

[0:01:20.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I have been thinking non-stop about this idea of intuitive eating.

[0:01:27.0] AMY MOORE: Really?

[0:01:27.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is so completely foreign to every other thing I’ve ever done. It’s like, okay, I’m going to be eating good or I’m going to be eating bad. In this idea of intuitive eating where you actually listen to your body and if it’s hungry and what it wants is so – it’s crazy how foreign that is and also how sad that is.

[0:01:53.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah, how sad that it’s foreign.

[0:01:55.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, because even just considering it since you mentioned it last week it’s like, I’ve been considering the idea, just testing it out of what would it look like if and I did some research on Katie’s site, katiegarces.com and just looking up intuitive eating and what are the – how does this work, what is this like and the idea of “foods not being good or bad” is so freeing.

I was thinking, how have I not heard about this before? Because I’ve always – I’m all about like, okay, I’m going to do this diet now. This is going to be the one that’s going to be the key. This is going to be the one that’s not a huge hassle, or hard, or this is going to be my true lifestyle change, right? Yeah, I’m excited to talk about this today.

[0:02:50.0] AMY MOORE: All right, so before we get into it, we’ve got an awesome review. Love these.

[0:02:56.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Good.

[0:02:57.3] AMY MOORE: This one is called Girl Power. Five stars from Marvelous Miss M. Isn’t that great? Yeah. “I really enjoy listening to this new podcast. I felt like I was there with them taking part of the conversation. I actually laughed out loud while listening to them. I could relate to the topics they discussed.”

[0:03:23.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Awesome.

[0:03:24.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Hey, Marvelous Miss M.

[0:03:26.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.

[0:03:27.1] AMY MOORE: Thank you on coming. Love hearing from you. Okay, so intuitive eating. Anna, we know you have been –

[0:03:34.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m fired up.

[0:03:35.2] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re fired up.

[0:03:36.0] AMY MOORE: Thinking about this you’re fired up. It sounds like you have done some online research, or what’s been your – ever since you first learned about this from last week, what’d you find?

[0:03:46.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I mean, so I’ve been considering the idea of what this would look like in my life, right? I started thinking, why have I not heard about this, or been aware of this idea ever? What I came to realize is that I think that things come into our life when we’re ready to hear them, or ready to look at them. It might have crossed my path at some point, but there is no way I would have ever even considered it as a possibility if it meant that I might become fat.

[0:04:22.1] AMY MOORE: Temporarily.

[0:04:23.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No. It might happen. That’s an option. With this intuitive eating idea is that you also accept your body for what it is.

[0:04:34.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Say more about that.

[0:04:35.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. This is something that I wouldn’t even have let myself consider in the past, which is why if I had heard of it, I would have knocked it off of any possibility of trying it out. The idea is that you essentially reject diet culture and there’s this whole deprogramming piece that happens where you say foods, like I mentioned earlier, foods aren’t good or bad. All the rules about, “Oh, I can’t have carbs, or I can’t eat sweets.” Those are thrown out.

You listen to your body, you listen to its cues and then you act accordingly. That also incorporates the idea of accepting your body for what it is and then the idea of this incorporating joyful movement. What say link and talk about –

[0:05:26.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. That’s what I was just thinking.

[0:05:29.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It’s completely accepting your body for what it is and nourishing it and giving it what it needs and listening to it. It’s a complete rejection of diet culture.

[0:05:41.7] ERIN LINEHAN: When you were reading that, what was happening internally when you were reading this and part of it feels good for you and part of it feels like, “Uh!” What was happening?

[0:05:50.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s scary, because – when I was pregnant with my son, I gained 45 pounds. That was when I was – when I first got pregnant, I was vegetarian. I started eating meat, because I was like, “Oh, gosh. My body is asking for it.” I feel like when I was pregnant in a lot of ways, I let myself do this. I was like, “What does my body need? What is my body asking for?” 

I feel I was off the rails, like I’m going to eat whatever I want. That is such a scary place for me, because as much as I want to accept my body for what it is, the reality is I have a super hard time with that. I have a history of eating disorders and of trying every single diet. It’s very scary to think that I would “let myself go,” or be bad and eat whatever I want.

[0:06:44.6] AMY MOORE: Not follow rules.

[0:06:46.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. What would that look like? Part of me is like, “Oh, my gosh. This is so freeing.” The weight of having to always think what the hell am I going to eat? Is this good? Is this bad? Oh, my gosh. I feel so bad about eating this thing I shouldn’t have. Now I have to go work out. Oh, I don’t want to do it.

[0:07:01.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s so much energy.

[0:07:02.5] AMY MOORE: It’s like the shame spiral.

[0:07:04.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. So much energy.

[0:07:06.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just even trying this out of oh, gosh, I want to have freaking coffee cake for dinner. That idea of oh, I guess I could. Or even –

[0:07:17.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Pita chips and hummus for breakfast.

[0:07:18.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, exactly. It’s like, this is what I am wanting right now. This is what my body’s asking for. It’s a scary thing to consider. It’s also incredibly liberating, because I’m like, wow, it really makes me realize how much time I have been thinking about this. Like I mentioned in the past episode of the episode our bodies are finding ourselves, it’s like, this is something that I’ve been struggling with for so long to take that off of my plate, that obsession off my plate, no pun intended. It’s so freeing and scary.

[0:07:56.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Can we talk about the 10 principles of it, so people that were listening can know where we are?

[0:08:01.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. Good, good, good.

[0:08:02.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah, so this is from intuitiveeating.org. It’s the 10 – Yeah.

[0:08:07.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can we say who created this?

[0:08:09.0] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:08:09.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: These are The Original Intuitive Eating Pros from their website intuitiveeating.org.

[0:08:17.8] AMY MOORE: Evelyn Tribole. It looks like she’s got an MS and RDN and some other –

[0:08:25.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Letters.

[0:08:26.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Letters after her name.

[0:08:28.9] AMY MOORE: Then Elyse Resch and also a lot of letters after her name.

[0:08:36.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They are very impressive. I have no idea what those mean. Yeah, so they started this and they have 10 principles.

[0:08:44.2] AMY MOORE: They’ve got 10 principles of intuitive eating. Number one, reject the diet mentality. Number two, honor your hunger. Number three, make peace with food. Number four, challenge the food police. Number five, respect your fullness. Number six, discover the satisfaction factor. Number seven, honor your feelings without using food. Number eight, respect your body. Number nine, exercise, feel the difference. Number 10, honor your health.

[0:09:19.7] ERIN LINEHAN: When I hear those, it’s interesting because I feel this is where our society runs into issues, because we are so mind over matter and it’s not necessarily in the way to wholeness or to healing is to incorporate the body and the mind together and the spirit for that matter. Katie talked a lot about that as well. 

When you’re listening – you can’t honor, challenge the food police unless you know what’s happening internally. Then you can’t discover a satisfaction factor or respect your fullness unless you’re in touch with your body.

I think, Anna to your point, it’s scary because we are not taught that if we want chocolate chip cookies that since we deprive ourselves all the time, then we’re going to eat 10 of them. Fact is I think that – and she was even talking about that if that you eat 10 cookies, probably that’s not going to make you feel very good. It’s like when I go Hawg Jaws –

[0:10:11.4] AMY MOORE: Chocolate-covered almonds?

[0:10:12.4] ERIN LINEHAN: No, no, no. Well, yeah. That was bad news, whereas with ranch dip and ruffles potato chips. It’s my kryptonite.

[0:10:19.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, gosh.

[0:10:20.7] AMY MOORE: Honestly, that sounds so good.

[0:10:21.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, that’s what I feel – Oh, God. But I feel terrible. Oh, my God.

[0:10:26.5] AMY MOORE: After the whole bag?

[0:10:28.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Not quite the whole bag. My sister and my nephew share in them. I’m like, “Oh, look how much they ate.” It’s me.

[0:10:38.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Just testing this out this last week, one of the ones that I’ve struggled with the most, I mean, apart from this whole idea, I’ve struggled with this deprogramming idea, but the respect your fullness; that’s really been very hard and it’s –

[0:10:54.5] ERIN LINEHAN: What’s been hard about it?

[0:10:56.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, so for example, we went to a fast food place that we don’t usually eat fast food. I was like, “Oh.” I ended up leaving a quarter of my sandwich, because I was like, “Well, I’m full. I’m going to stop,” which was definitely different. Normally, I would be like, “I’m just going to finish it, because it’s only a quarter of it left,” right? That was very interesting to notice. Then the fries, these great waffle fries, they – I knew if I saved them for later, they would not be nearly as good.

[0:11:29.8] ERIN LINEHAN: No. They’re not good.

[0:11:31.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They just reheat them. It’s like, well, I have to be okay with wasting this food and not enjoying it right now. It was like, I noticed that kept coming up. It was like, it’s not going to be as fresh or good as good later.

[0:11:47.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, so you need to eat it now. Is that what was going through your head?

[0:11:50.2] AMY MOORE: It’s hard to then respect the fullness.

[0:11:52.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, and it was actually I’m full, but I want to keep eating because I’m enjoying it for what it is. Another thing that came up is in doing research about this idea of this intuitive, or mindful eating is I ran across someone had done a – have you heard of these food journal blogs? They write down what they eat, or what I eat in a day. There was a twist on it from an intuitive eater and they had a why I ate what I did journal.

[0:12:23.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Damn. Up-level. That is an up-level.

[0:12:24.0] AMY MOORE: Oh, interesting. You wouldn’t write down what you ate it all, just why?

[0:12:29.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, you would. You’d say like, “I ate cake for breakfast, because I wanted to eat cake for breakfast and I was hungry. I stopped when I had enough cake. Then I had protein. I had two hardboiled eggs 10 minutes later, because I was hungry.”

[0:12:44.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s interesting, because with – because I have to intuitively eat when I’m on these really long runs. A lot of it is sugar, because it all goes through. I get tired of eating, because I have to eat so much while I’m running. On those runs, it’s all straight sugar. I can eat gummy bears, I can eat potato chips, I can eat whatever the things are because you’re out there for so long and your body needs this. 

After I’m done, that is the last stuff that I want. When I’m training, I generally don’t want to eat sugar outside of when my runs are, because I get tired of it, which is I think goes to this whole thing. Yeah.

[0:13:20.2] AMY MOORE: I think it’s super interesting. My experience with it, so probably five years ago or around then, I was doing CrossFit and I was doing – I was just super active and really pushing my physical body.

[0:13:35.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think was that around when I first met you?

[0:13:36.9] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah.

[0:13:37.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because I think we first connected over CrossFit. It was like –

[0:13:40.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah.

[0:13:41.5] ERIN LINEHAN: You two?

[0:13:42.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:13:44.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It was like, “Wait, you did CrossFit?” I was like – I think we even had the conversation of I love how intense it is.

[0:13:50.0] AMY MOORE: Totally.

[0:13:51.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so intense.

[0:13:52.4] AMY MOORE: I miss the barbell.

[0:13:53.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I do too.

[0:13:54.9] AMY MOORE: That’s what I think about the most, just barbell.

[0:13:57.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. Okay, we need to go lift some heavy-ass weight.

[0:14:00.8] AMY MOORE: All right, let’s do it.

[0:14:02.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Can I be there for that?

[0:14:03.7] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah. You could take us a video? Maybe Anna will throw in some twerking.

[0:14:09.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, for you. For you, Erin, I will.

[0:14:11.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, boy. It’s my dream.

[0:14:11.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’ll try it just a little bit –

[0:14:13.2] AMY MOORE: Okay. Anyway, so about five years ago, was into CrossFit and I was really frustrated, because for me, my relationship with my body and eating has been so tied to my goal number, my weight goal. I feel like, I have always felt like, “Oh, if I could get back to that old high school number, which is ridiculous.” Then it’s also –

[0:14:43.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The two babies you had in high school. She didn’t have two babies, but that was just a – never mind.

[0:14:50.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah, two babies later. Anyway, all kinds of stuff. I feel that number has just been – that’s what’s taken a ton of my energy. Then I also, I have tried everything out there, I feel like. During this CrossFit time, I went and saw a nutritionist, no surprise. I’ve seen my fair share. This one, I had a three or five-session package with her. Her whole thing was there is no more good or bad food. I was like, “What?” She said, “No. No more good or bad food.”

With that particular nutritionist, there wasn’t the whole – the deeper level of intuitive I feel tied in there. It was nothing is good or bad, just listen to what you want. That was it. Then she gave me examples of healthy snacks and all this stuff and different plates. It was more traditional nutrition, where it was that picture of a plate and what should be filled up with percentages. 

Anyway, I went gangbusters on that, because I was like, “Sweet. Eat what you want.” She was also like, with the amount that you’re exercising, you should be able to eat whatever you want. For me –

[0:16:14.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a green light to –

[0:16:16.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah. I took it and I ate whatever I wanted. It was carb-heavy, sugar, just whatever. Again, that number for me it just ballooned and I was super bummed again. 

Then I swung my pendulum to the other side, zero-carb, paleo, blah, blah, blah. I just feel that’s been the story of not only my type of eating, but also my number on the scale. I think it’s super interesting to hear about intuitive eating with the idea that yeah, food is not good or bad, but then to add on how important that is the part of one, how do you listen to your body. Not only is it about what you want, but then you need to respect fullness. Or it’s important to understand what satisfaction is.

[0:17:20.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think there’s a pro tip here, is that someone once told me is that when you’re eating and that moment that you take some of course after you started eating and you take a breath, that’s generally when you’re full. When you notice like – then that’s usually when you’re full. You’re breathing the whole time, but I mean, when you take a deep breath, your first deep breath is generally cut-off point. Yeah.

[0:17:43.2] AMY MOORE: Well, and also the speed at which you eat your food has a big impact on whether or not you can respect your full factor, or whatever, or I think maybe the ease of that.

[0:17:55.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Also paying attention to not having distractions; that’s one of the recommendations is to be very mindful when you’re eating, so that you can pay attention to those cues.

[0:18:09.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Well, and I think about European culture and how you never see people walking around with a coffee cup in their hand. Let alone, a burger or fries or a meal. In America, obviously it’s so common. Everybody’s always on the run, eating on the run, drinking on the run, da, da, da, da, da, da, just quick, fast. It’s so different in Europe.

[0:18:35.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I think for me what’s been with all this stuff is the density of my food. Do I need to eat something heavier? Do I need to eat a pasta, or a rice, or something heavier? Or do I need salad, or whatever based on how I’m feeling? Intuitively, that’s helped me a lot recently.

[0:18:53.4] AMY MOORE: You do not eat meat, right?

[0:18:55.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. I do not eat meat.

[0:18:57.0] AMY MOORE: Right. Because when I think of density, I think of meat.

[0:19:00.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Meat is dense. Yeah.

[0:19:01.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. It’s interesting to think that –

[0:19:02.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I can eat a Beyond meat burger, which isn’t super awesome for you, but if I need something like that. Generally, it’s heavier food. Do I want to eat something rice-based? Or do I need a soup, or do I need a salad of some sort? Yeah.

[0:19:18.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, it’s a really interesting way of thinking. I also think about – I mean, I have done a ton of food journals, calorie counting, points counting. I mean, you name it; grams of protein counting. It’s just insane.

[0:19:36.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Macros.

[0:19:38.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then you think about this and has – it’s not about counting at all.

[0:19:42.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. That is the point. Throughout this research I’ve done on it, it’s if you’re manipulating what you’re eating with the idea that the result will be you losing weight, then it turns into a diet. This idea of connecting with your intuition, so that you can in turn connect to your body and have a healthier relationship, that is so foreign and it makes me so sad. All the time, I’ve wasted all the mental energy.

[0:20:15.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s so much energy.

[0:20:16.7] AMY MOORE: It really is.

[0:20:17.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s crazy. You know what? It makes me think about, so I did the spending fast, I got out of close to 24,000 in debt. What I did with that is I stepped out of that cycle of obsessing about what I will or will not buy by saying these are the acceptable things, these are the not acceptable things by creating the wants and needs list. With this it’s like, okay, I’m going to step out of this diet culture. I’m stepping out of the cycle. I’m taking my power back.

[0:20:44.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Are you saying as you’re doing this right now?

[0:20:46.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m saying I’m thinking about this. It’s very, very empowering to consider the idea of stepping out of the cycle of diet culture and connecting to my intuition and what my body is telling me. Again, ever since Katie brought this up on the podcast, it’s like, I’ve been noticing how much of diet culture is around. This is good, this is bad.

[0:21:08.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a billions of dollars industry.

[0:21:09.9] AMY MOORE: True.

[0:21:10.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s crazy.

[0:21:10.7] AMY MOORE: It’s crazy.

[0:21:11.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s all over Instagram, it’s – I’ve said before on the podcast that my body is – everything else has taken priority with my therapy and things I’ve worked on. To get to the point in my life where this is the thing I’m focusing on right now, it’s so much –realizing how much of my self-worth is tied to my body image and my weight. Then to with this idea, say, “You know what? I’m going to step out of that cycle.”

[0:21:38.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Rebel.

[0:21:40.4] AMY MOORE: Totally.

[0:21:40.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s true.

[0:21:43.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “Ooh.”

[0:21:44.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Ooh, that’s a challenge there rebel.

[0:21:45.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a challenge.

[0:21:46.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Challenge for the rebel.

[0:21:47.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, yeah. It’s wild to just be like, wow, I can get my mental space back.

[0:21:54.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that’s why I like to do plant-based eating, because dairy doesn’t always feel super great in my body. I don’t really like meat. Within those parameters, which is a lot of food, then I can just eat what I want within that and I feel a lot of freedom. Do I want spinach, or do I want some –

[0:22:13.7] AMY MOORE: Potato.

[0:22:14.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. I always want potatoes. I love potatoes so much. I can’t – oh, it’s so good.

[0:22:21.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: There’s the versatile too. Oh, man. So good.

[0:22:24.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I need to make you these Nora Cooks Vegan. She’s this lady that I follow and she has this scalloped potato recipe.

[0:22:31.3] AMY MOORE: You told me about this.

[0:22:32.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, my God. I need to make it for you two. There’s this chickpea “meatloaf.” It is so good. I’m going to have you all over that.

[0:22:40.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I will take you up on that. When are we coming over?

[0:22:45.0] AMY MOORE: I know.

[0:22:45.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Whenever you want.

[0:22:47.4] AMY MOORE: Here’s something I find interesting in the last few months for me, I have lost a significant amount of weight, probably a little too much too fast. That just has to do with a high-stress time in my life. It’s been interesting for me to think about though in terms of – I mean, I also have spent so much energy on food and diet and eating and feeding my family and da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.

It’s interesting, because food has completely taken a backseat. For me and I haven’t even –nothing. I really haven’t even thought about it, but at the same time I honestly feel – I mean, I feel lighter, just physically, but I don’t know how much I weigh right now. I haven’t stepped on a – I’ve only stepped on my numberless scale, which I love. Thank you, Shapa. I don’t really know – I just haven’t put energy at all in food.

[0:23:55.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s that been like?

[0:23:56.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Because before all that happened, you were – sugar was a thing. That you were like –

[0:24:00.9] AMY MOORE: I mean, at one point I was texting you, because I was trying to do no sugar challenge.

[0:24:05.6] ERIN LINEHAN: No sugar. That would be the check-in daily every night of –

[0:24:07.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah, yeah. I would check in. Yeah.

[0:24:08.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, we do. I haven’t heard from her in a while. Hey, Amy.

[0:24:12.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re supposed to be doing some checking thing.

[0:24:14.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. We’re doing it.

[0:24:16.0] AMY MOORE: Yes. This is the story of my life. It’s completely taken a backseat.

[0:24:21.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I remember you saying something about, or just recently about nachos, or pizza, how it used to be such a bad thing like, “Ooh. We’re going to do this or not?”

[0:24:35.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah, and I also have my fair share of digestive, just upsets, or issues or whatever. I feel it’s been very interesting, because I haven’t thought at all about food. 

I’m eating whatever I want, but I’m really not thinking about it. I’m not wanting a lot of food. I also have not had any rules. Nothing is yes or no. It’s just been what’s in front of me, what’s available? Am I able to eat it or not right now? Able, meaning do I feel I can put – yeah, like put. It’s been a little bit of like a, “Aah!” Because now here I am and I feel – I actually feel really good in my body.

[0:25:28.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Great. Great.

[0:25:30.2] AMY MOORE: Not as strong as I have been in the past, but –

[0:25:33.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What is people’s response to you been? Has that affected how you think about yourself at all, or throughout this experience? Because at one point, you mentioned different people’s responses to the change, because it was pretty drastic.

[0:25:50.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah. I think I’ve gotten a lot of different. A lot of people will be like, “Whoa! You look amazing,” or whatever. Because I think the positivity of just that inherent cultural thing.

[0:26:06.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s such a glorified thing.

[0:26:09.5] AMY MOORE: Yes. It’s also very interesting to me, because a lot of people know that I have been in a high-stress time of life. In my mind, I’ve been worried about the loss, because I’m like, “Oh, shit.” That’s an indication of how freaking stressed I am. At the same time, then I get all this positive feedback.

[0:26:31.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Listen, I read this article one time and this woman was talking about the same type of thing, but she was going through cancer treatment. She lost a ton of weight. She went on vacation somewhere and all these people were commenting on what she physically looked like, because she had dropped a ton of weight in a short period of time. 

She was talking about commenting on like, “People are telling me I look super good.” For her, it was like she’s in the middle of cancer treatment and she was like, “Isn’t that interesting that this is what people value?” It was fascinating.

[0:27:01.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, and also that connection between thinness and healthiness, which is completely not true.

[0:27:08.5] AMY MOORE: Exactly. Exactly.

[0:27:11.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The idea that someone who is a little heavier might be way healthier than someone who’s skinny, but people don’t even consider that.

[0:27:18.7] ERIN LINEHAN: If someone’s a skinny, fat person, when their blood profiles or cholesterol is not awesome, but they’re thin so it doesn’t matter.

[0:27:25.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Or it’s not even on the radar.

[0:27:27.2] AMY MOORE: That’s all so fascinating, I think.

[0:27:28.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s fascinating.

[0:27:31.2] AMY MOORE: Even thinking about that connection of weight and health, it’s like, here I am so high-stress and yet, I’m thin and –

[0:27:41.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: People are like, “Wow. It’s amazing.”

[0:27:44.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[0:27:46.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hopefully this is okay to say. Obviously, we can edit it out, but you had the reaction, I remember you saying at one point someone said you’re too skinny. This is not – what you’re doing right now was not working. It’s not healthy. That was an interesting take on one person, I remember you relaying, saying this is not a healthy situation.

[0:28:11.8] AMY MOORE: I would say, the people – there are a few people and definitely the people who – Family, it’s been like, nope. It is important for you to eat more. You need to eat more. Friends who know closer detail, or whatever. Yeah, it’s just been very interesting. I also think one person, it’s not been like, “Hey, you’re too thin now. You need to give yourself calories, so that you can keep going here,” or whatever. Not that it’s deathly.

[0:28:47.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s that idea of nourishment.

[0:28:49.3] AMY MOORE: Yes, exactly.

[0:28:49.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Literally nourishing your body and giving it the fuel, so that you can do what you need to do and to be up, showing up in the world in the way that you need to.

[0:28:59.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. One person gave a very – it was just two smoothies a day, or just try – just that’s the goal.

[0:29:08.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Pop some peanut butter in there.

[0:29:10.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah, exactly. It wasn’t like, you need to have your three meals a day and they need to be balanced and very little carb, which is where I usually go.

[0:29:18.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s so great about the others meeting you where you’re at and saying like, “Okay, let’s just make this the bare minimum. Make this the goal of get some nourishment in you.”

[0:29:30.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think it doesn’t have to be some crazy, freaking diet that I’m doing my food journal and I’m having accountability everyday. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[0:29:43.4] ERIN LINEHAN: What’s interesting, the thinness and the healthy stuff, that whole thing, because that – you guys know the story of when this person commented. I think I had some dress on and I had a pooch in the dress and the woman asked me if I was pregnant. This is when I was two months out of my 100K.

[0:29:56.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, we know the story.

[0:29:58.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, they heard all about the story. I was –

[0:30:00.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have my own experience with that.

[0:30:02.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I am super, super pissed, but then I was like, “I could literally put you on my back and run up the side of a hill.”

[0:30:09.0] AMY MOORE: A hill or mountain?

[0:30:09.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, a mountain. It’s super interesting that whole perception, because I feel good in my body, but it’s not like I’m small. It’s not I’m huge or large. No, but I am a solid person. It’s just really interesting people’s perception.

[0:30:27.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I just think the whole connection with weight and health, definitely interesting. What about that whole idea with how we tap into the intuitive and being still?

[0:30:40.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can I say one more thing about the intuitive eating, two more things about the intuitive eating thing? One more thing – two more things about the intuitive eating is this first part of doing the research and figuring out what it’s all about is this idea of the deprogramming. Deprogramming all this language.

I mean, I remember my mom having a candy and portioning it out, like she was the Pied Piper and we’re at her feet like, “My candy. My candy. Please, please. Oh.” It was such a joyous like, “A chocolate.” Like we never had sweets in the house. It was such a thing. The language she used around food, I internalized and took that on. Now it’s a deprogramming. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just saying that’s the way it was.

Now thinking about having a son and how I talk to him about food. Like, let’s eat the healthy food first and not trying to stigmatize it, or make it such a big deal. It’s such a different way to consider the idea of food and how we relate that message of what this is to other people and then they carry it on and learn that as how they relate to food. It’s such a huge part of our existence as humans.

Then I noticed too throughout this week, this has been a big food week for me, the idea of the scarcity versus abundance. It goes back to I used to in between each of my diets, it would be like, “Oh, I’m off the rails. I’m going to indulge in this bad food.” Then I go Hawg Jaw on it.

[0:32:25.2] ERIN LINEHAN: The hell is that term.

[0:32:28.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s the perfect – I go Hawg Jaw on everything.

[0:32:33.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I used to say to my family, fat girl needs to eat. Again I go, fat girl needs to eat. Yeah. Hawg Jaws. Just say, go ahead. Keep going.

[0:32:46.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, then we’re going Hawg Jaw here.

[0:32:49.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Hawg Jaw.

[0:32:51.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Something about the Hawg Jaws.

[0:32:53.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In-between being good, this bookends of being good and going Hawg Jaw in between eating all the things. It’s the scarcity versus the abundance thing. 

What this intuitive eating – what I’ve been finding out is this idea of after a couple weeks of letting yourself go Hawg Jaw and whatever the hell you want, basically, and starting this process of deprogramming, that you start to realize no one’s going to take this food away. I can have just the amount I need. Not too much, not too little, so that I feel full, I don’t feel sick, I don’t feel bloated. I’m going to have enough nourishment. I’m going to have the food that feels good in my body and that I want and not feel it’s going to leave, or that I’m going to start the next diet.

[0:33:44.5] AMY MOORE: Go ahead.

[0:33:45.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m going to go back to training. With that, whenever I’m training and have done series of long runs, I’ll eat a chipotle burrito after it and I’ll be full for two or three hours.

[0:33:58.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I thought you’re going to say two or three days.

[0:33:59.9] ERIN LINEHAN: No. When I’m not training and I – that thing will make me – if I eat that for lunch, I will be full to the entire next day. I get so full. I think when I’m running, it helps me to figure out how to intuitively eat, because I’ll get so hungry.

[0:34:14.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. You’re so in your body.

[0:34:16.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just as a side note.

[0:34:18.8] AMY MOORE: I think there’s a whole bunch of things in the last few episodes, or I don’t know, this season that I think really tie in. It’s like the Barre3 practice of going to exercise not to change your body, but just to accept and love your body. Then how that ties in to intuitive eating and how this isn’t about changing our bodies to get to that number, or count those calories. This is about listening to your body and understanding its needs and respecting those needs and ultimately accepting the body.

[0:34:55.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, there’s such a kindness in that approach.

[0:34:59.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Compassionate. Yeah.

[0:35:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. That’s what I can’t get over with talking to Sadie and talking with Katie and the connection to body and the connection to food and that gut feeling of your body and being okay with it and how do we get to that place mentally. 

It’s such a kind way to approach it. I was thinking about a conversation that I had with someone close to me. We have very different views on the world and she was saying, “What do you mean? You just accept everyone for the way they are?” I was like, “Well, yeah.”

[0:35:38.3] ERIN LINEHAN: You can’t control it.

[0:35:39.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s the alternative? Well, if there’s no rules, then everything goes crazy. There’s that fear of if I don’t constrain it, if I don’t contain it, it’s going to be balls out, no option but for things to go –

[0:35:55.3] AMY MOORE: Awry.

[0:35:55.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Chaotic.

[0:35:56.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The option is we either put rules on it and constrain it and make it – try to force it into this box, or we accept it and then what?

[0:36:06.3] AMY MOORE: Right. In terms of the body and eating like that, it’s so –

[0:36:10.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s very similar, the idea of what would happen? There’s a fear of if I accept my body just the way it is, the result of that and what that means, I’m really fired up about this.

[0:36:21.7] AMY MOORE: You are. It’s good.

[0:36:22.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Is that I might have a body that has traditionally been something that might end up being something that I would traditionally view as not acceptable.

[0:36:32.2] ERIN LINEHAN: This is exactly – this is what, the theme of the underlying theme, or what were you’re talking about is this is what gets people to – these are the people I work, or to get people to the next level. Everyone thinks that we need that critical voice to get us there and belittle us and berate us and that’s the thing that like, “That’s how I got so successful. It doesn’t work.” 

We have to befriend that part of us, but then how do we accept all of the parts? Then ultimately, the self-love part that we’ve keep on talking is the thing that allows you to do that. You’re in a place where you can be self-loving and like, “Hey, I’m finally ready to look at this intuitive eating and what is this about,” because you’ve talked several times about that your body and food is the last frontier of the things that you need to explore within your healing.

It sounds like that you’re shedding this critical voice and what would it look like and it is terrifying for everybody. I had to go through this process of if I let this go, how am I going to get things done, or how am I going to accomplish things? 

Then actually when I have checked that – been really curious about this critical part, then I’ve gotten so much more done because I’m way and I’m way happier and joyful doing it. Not that I’m perfect at it, but it’s an entirely different experience in the world. It is scary to let go of that grasp.

[0:38:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: To be like, “What? We don’t have any rules? I just accept myself?”

[0:38:05.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. What? You mean I’m not constantly trying to change myself?

[0:38:10.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Like myself, like I don’t hate my body?

[0:38:13.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Look different.

[0:38:15.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You know what? It is also interesting, this has been a very big weeks.

[0:38:18.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I know. Damn.

[0:38:19.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Holy cow.

[0:38:20.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, boy.

[0:38:21.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hey, high-fives for self-growth and reflection.

[0:38:23.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Ready?

[0:38:25.4] AMY MOORE: Anna. All right. What is it, Anna?

[0:38:28.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Did you hear that? Did you hear that? Okay. Anna and I as I’ve said, I’ve been trying to teach Anna how to do the perfect high five.

[0:38:35.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: To Amy’s –

[0:38:37.2] ERIN LINEHAN: To Amy hates us so much.

[0:38:40.0] AMY MOORE: It’s so much time. It’s a time suck, the stupid high-fiving.

[0:38:45.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, that’s right. One nation. We’re trying. We’re trying.

[0:38:48.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re trying. I’m working on my coordination.

[0:38:49.8] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re going to put a video on that.

[0:38:51.0] AMY MOORE: Okay. Here’s one other thing. Anna, finish your thought.

[0:38:54.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What was I saying?

[0:38:55.5] AMY MOORE: Well, that’s a good question before we got into the high-fives.

[0:38:59.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Go.

[0:39:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What was it?

[0:39:00.5] ERIN LINEHAN: You said two things. You are the second one.

[0:39:02.2] AMY MOORE: You were saying it’s a really big week.

[0:39:04.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I’ve had this fear of I’m just going to go Hawg Jaw on a lot of pizza and ice cream.

[0:39:11.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I love that you’ve adopted the Hawg Jaw [inaudible 0:39:13.9]. Taking all that so hard.

[0:39:17.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I am. It’s donuts, pizza, ice cream, all the things that I love, right? I wish those were health foods. Unfortunately, they’re not.

[0:39:28.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Nobody said –

[0:39:29.0] AMY MOORE: You don’t need to eat a lot of them. Go on.

[0:39:32.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I found myself craving Brussels sprouts. I like roasted those motherfuckers, put some oil, salt. They were so good.

[0:39:41.4] ERIN LINEHAN: So good.

[0:39:43.2] AMY MOORE: I love that.

[0:39:44.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I was like, “My body wants some Brussels sprouts.” Here get some Brussels sprout about it. It was great. I felt hopeful.

[0:39:53.8] AMY MOORE: Very. I think the thing that is also interesting, I think it was Richard Rohr was brought up with the non-dualistic thing.

[0:40:01.9] ERIN LINEHAN: I love me some Richard Rohr.

[0:40:02.8] AMY MOORE: Which seems to also be another theme of this whole thing where there can be do duality. You can have the pizza one day and Brussels sprouts the next day.

[0:40:13.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or the same day.

[0:40:14.0] AMY MOORE: Or the same day.

[0:40:14.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Or the same meal.

[0:40:15.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or the same meal. Yes.

[0:40:18.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Amy, let’s talk about your irritation with us right now. We need to address that, because that is very much in the robe.

[0:40:24.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re so annoyed with us right now.

[0:40:27.0] AMY MOORE: I just feel you’re trying to go – No.

[0:40:30.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s the high-fiving, right?

[0:40:31.8] AMY MOORE: The high-fiving is getting old.

[0:40:36.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Such a positive thing went so bad.

[0:40:40.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It had to go terribly south.

[0:40:41.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s all like hour of high-five training is too much for Amy. High-five training.

[0:40:46.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Richard Rohr.

[0:40:47.4] AMY MOORE: Now here we are talking about high-fiving again.

[0:40:49.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Now dualistic.

[0:40:51.0] AMY MOORE: Richard Rohr. I think it’s very interesting in this whole idea of acceptance and intuitiveness and accepting your body and then also the dualistic, or having the and.

[0:41:07.1] ERIN LINEHAN: If we could have Richard Rohr on this podcast for next season, I would be – that would just –

[0:41:10.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, we should invite him.

[0:41:11.8] AMY MOORE: How about when we do have him?

[0:41:13.1] ERIN LINEHAN: When we do have – Yes. He is so good.

[0:41:17.5] AMY MOORE: Do you want to high-five?

[0:41:18.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes.

[0:41:19.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I do.

[0:41:20.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No! We’re both like, yes. Erin, high-five.

[0:41:26.1] ERIN LINEHAN: That was a bad one. Okay. Okay. Focus.

[0:41:28.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Poor Amy.

[0:41:31.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, come on.

[0:41:32.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re all boring me.

[0:41:33.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Stop. Stop that right now. Okay.

[0:41:36.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We feel really bad for you having to endure this high-fiveness.

[0:41:40.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I did not feel bad at all. I’ll tell you that much. I did not feel bad at all.

[0:41:44.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That was sarcasm. Sarcasm? Sarcasm.

[0:41:48.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Sarcas –

[0:41:49.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sarcasm.

[0:41:49.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay.

[0:41:51.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Whoop! Whoop!

[0:41:52.1] AMY MOORE: Thank you. I think challenge for the week, what do you all say?

[0:41:59.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Can we talk about the stillness and quiet?

[0:42:01.2] AMY MOORE: Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Forgot about that. Go for it.

[0:42:05.0] ERIN LINEHAN: The stillness and being quiet, right? Because that’s how you get in touch with your intuitive parts of you and into your body, so I’m curious about how you all do that. 

How do you stop that, because I don’t think stillness necessarily – I was on a training weekend in the desert this past weekend, and so we were talking about on the run, like you need to be still, to physically still to be in stillness and really, I think it’s just when you can – the outside’s noise is calmed down. I’m just curious about what your thoughts about that.

[0:42:36.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I can’t help but think about meditation with this obviously. I am such – along with my ambitious back-sleeping want to be, I am a very ambitious meditator want to be. I have downloaded literally every single app. I have such high standards for myself on what meditation means and what that looks like and what –

[0:43:00.9] ERIN LINEHAN: What does that mean?

[0:43:02.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: – counts as meditation.

[0:43:02.6] ERIN LINEHAN: What does that mean?

[0:43:03.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That would mean dedicated time. This is in my very –

[0:43:07.5] ERIN LINEHAN: In Anna’s world?

[0:43:08.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: My standard for meditation of dedicated time where I’m only focusing on meditating and doing it very well and not distracted.

[0:43:20.2] ERIN LINEHAN: What’s the whole thing with it?

[0:43:21.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Huh?

[0:43:22.0] ERIN LINEHAN: To embrace the distraction? Because that’s what –

[0:43:24.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I know.

[0:43:24.3] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s what your brain is supposed to do.

[0:43:25.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, yeah. This is what I’m saying for it to count.

[0:43:30.5] AMY MOORE: What do you do to be still?

[0:43:35.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: How much.

[0:43:36.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a good focus on – This is a good focus, Amy.

[0:43:37.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. That’s a good question.

[0:43:39.3] AMY MOORE: That’s honest.

[0:43:40.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I try. This is the thing, I’ve been trying to broaden my definition of what meditation means, honestly. It’s like, okay, I can take five deep breaths and I’m going to say that counts. It’s this whole idea of it counting as meditation, because it’s like, “Oh, meditation is so good. I have to do it this way. It has to look this certain way.” 

For me, we all have busy lives, but if I can just say I’m going to just be present and do five deep breaths, or even three deep breaths, or one. I really like that idea, or the idea of going out in nature is something that I really like, and walking, and this idea of a walking meditation. For me, sitting down and making it something I have to do, it is not working. It doesn’t work. When I try to attempt to do that, I fail.

[0:44:32.5] AMY MOORE: I wonder what it would be like if you apply the intuitive eating to your meditation principles?

[0:44:37.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn, you all.

[0:44:38.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, damn.

[0:44:39.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn. You get a high-five.

[0:44:41.5] AMY MOORE: Just let it go. Just let it go. Or don’t have so many rules around it.

[0:44:48.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Tell me more about that.

[0:44:50.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, which is fascinating that you have rules around all these things when we do the four tendencies in your rebel and that’s no internal and external expectations. Then when you set all these expectations up and that’s not naturally how your system functions.

[0:45:06.3] AMY MOORE: Interesting.

[0:45:07.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:45:08.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Says the therapist.

[0:45:10.9] AMY MOORE: Got to take that one into consideration for real.

[0:45:14.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m going to have to think about that one.

[0:45:16.1] AMY MOORE: Lately, I’ve been walking my dog and trying to really walk with one-two, one-two. I count my steps, which is something that’s not abnormal. I had that habit in the past of just counting how many steps, especially when I run. I just count, count the steps. When I’ve been walking the dog – and my therapist has said bilateral movement is so good and maybe you can speak more to that.

[0:45:44.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s why I EMDR your stuff.

[0:45:46.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Okay.

[0:45:47.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Anna spoke  to it.

[0:45:49.3] AMY MOORE: EMDR bilateral, basically moving one side of your body and then another, right? Or somehow having contact with one side of your body and then another. That does something to your thought patterns.

[0:46:01.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Just the sense of moves this stuff through.

[0:46:04.2] AMY MOORE: Okay. Yeah. I’ve just been doing that, so walking and one-two, one-two. That’s one thing I’ve been doing. The other thing is –

[0:46:11.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Which is interesting, because in a lot of meditations, they have you breathing on the one and exhaling the two and breathing on the one and exhale on the two.

[0:46:18.8] AMY MOORE: I always have an issue with any meditation around how to breathe, or the count inhale; 1, 2, 3, exhale. I fixate so much on the counting and then I end up – my breath is completely off. I’ll be like, “Oh, shit I got to hold it longer.”

[0:46:39.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I was walking with someone and then we were talking about that and they were like, “You know, they talk about breathing in for four and I’m really a three breaths kind of girl.” That’s what I do. 

[0:46:48.9] AMY MOORE: That’s me. I don’t do that anymore. Whenever –

[0:46:51.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m hyperventilating when I do it. I’m like –

[0:46:54.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah, you don’t want to do that. That’s not good for meditation. That’s one thing, the walking and counting my steps. The other thing is I got this journal in this Juju Be Gone package and it’s the I am journal.

[0:47:07.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, I was wondering where you got that. Yeah.

[0:47:08.9] AMY MOORE: It’s awesome. It’s guided journaling really, but it focuses on what your burning desire is, what your feelings are when you have it and then everything is in the present tense. I am strong. I am financially well-off. Whatever your goals are or whatever you want in your life, you write your affirmation basically. 

Then you do it in the morning and at night. So far, got to say I’m not super far along, but I am doing it and it’s helping, because I think for me there’s so much internally that I want to feel, or that where I want to be. I’m just getting through stuff right now, so I just – to have that beacon of light to focus has been really helpful. The other thing is at night, I would say probably five out of seven nights a week, I listen to Buddhify.

[0:48:05.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, okay. That’s an app, right?

[0:48:07.1] AMY MOORE: It’s an app. It’s a guided meditation and I listen to it as I fall asleep.

[0:48:12.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Damn. You’re healthy. Super healthy.

[0:48:20.4] AMY MOORE: I mean, I am not perfect.

[0:48:21.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I say that jokingly. For real, I think that.

[0:48:25.9] AMY MOORE: I really feel it’s not – There’s no perfection ever. These are things that I actually really need to do, because if I don’t, I will not be in a good place. It’s some of these things I am seeing in my own life today that they are making a tremendous impact.

[0:48:46.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s so cool.

[0:48:48.4] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a gift.

[0:48:50.1] AMY MOORE: What about you? How do you be still? You said running.

[0:48:52.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Running in the woods, but I will not listen to anything in my ear holes.

[0:48:56.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You’re still but moving.

[0:48:58.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, but I’m still moving, right? Then I also will just sit and the first thing I do when I wake up is just drink a cup of coffee and just let the day come in. I’ll meditate and that helps a lot. Then when I do yoga, that helps to get into – just get me into my body. 

Sometimes I’ll realize I’ve been going so quickly and then I’ll go to a yoga class and then I’m like, “Oh, my God. I feel like a baby giraffe.” Because I’m like being born, like I can finally feel my arms and legs, which is crazy. Mostly when I was going on this camping trip, we cooked all the food. Well, I cooked all the food beforehand and I didn’t – and I cooking for three or four hours and I did not listen to anything the entire time. It was just a good wash for my system when you just need a break from outside stuff, which is I think we get assaulted on the daily with that. When I can do these practices more often, it just opens up whatever. Yeah.

[0:49:57.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, and I mean, just what we’ve been talking about, it reminds me of what Sadie said about the constant remembering. It’s so easy to forget and then it’s like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was so helpful.

[0:50:08.5] ERIN LINEHAN: When I’m running, actually this is going to make me such like a weirdo, but I’m going to go with it right now. Is that sometimes I’m running and it’ll be really early in the mornings, and so I’ll see this deer. Then I can tell how peaceful. I don’t know if it’s actually happening, but this is what I like to tell myself. I can tell how peaceful I am if they just look up and let me go along the way.

[0:50:30.6] AMY MOORE: They don’t run away?

[0:50:33.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Where I’m like, “Oh, okay.”

[0:50:34.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They’re like, “Bitch, I’m out.”

[0:50:36.9] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re a little [inaudible 0:50:37.0] today. No, but when I can move past them without them running away that I’m like, “Okay. All right. Okay.”

[0:50:43.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s so nice.

[0:50:44.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. You are one union with deer. Yeah.

[0:50:46.8] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right. Yeah, Bambi and I. Yeah.

[0:50:49.2] AMY MOORE: That’s awesome. That is awesome. One thing I do have to say is that there are definitely, like Dandapani says everywhere we are hearing about meditation, you can meditate anywhere, you can meditate when you’re gardening. His take on that is no.

[0:51:04.3] ERIN LINEHAN: You can be mindful.

[0:51:05.9] AMY MOORE: Well yeah. Even that he might have, I don’t know. His whole thing is meditation is sitting down, closing your eyes and being still.

[0:51:14.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’ve heard that as well.

[0:51:16.3] AMY MOORE: I think it’s interesting to think about mindful versus meditation.

[0:51:21.7] ERIN LINEHAN: This at some point, which we don’t have time today –

[0:51:23.9] AMY MOORE: Do I say what this is?

[0:51:25.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m getting there.

[0:51:26.0] AMY MOORE: Oh, okay.

[0:51:26.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. I wanted to talk about the Enneagram, because that’s super interesting, because that’s come up repeatedly.

[0:51:31.5] AMY MOORE: It has.

[0:51:32.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Have you two done it?

[0:51:33.5] AMY MOORE: No. I haven’t.

[0:51:35.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m a three, I think.

[0:51:36.0] AMY MOORE: Wait. The Enneagram, when did this become a thing?

[0:51:41.2] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s real old. I don’t know the history. It’s I don’t want to say thousands, but it could be, or hundreds at least.

[0:51:46.6] AMY MOORE: Because it is – I feel because most of our guests –

[0:51:48.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s so informative. It’s so informative. I have books on it. Anyway, so we should do some –

[0:51:53.8] AMY MOORE: Follow-up?

[0:51:54.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Follow-up on that, because it’s fascinating just how it – it’s just interesting.

[0:51:59.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I keep getting three, nine and seven in different orders.

[0:52:03.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, I’m a seven.

[0:52:05.0] AMY MOORE: Let’s table it maybe and we can we put it on. We can talk about it more.

[0:52:09.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, eventually.

[0:52:10.4] AMY MOORE: I should probably do it.

[0:52:11.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should do it. I’ll give you the books.

[0:52:13.7] AMY MOORE: Okay, cool.

[0:52:14.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. I’d like to read about it.

[0:52:15.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. I have books.

[0:52:16.8] AMY MOORE: Awesome.

[0:52:17.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Cool. You know what we did not talk about yet?

[0:52:19.8] ERIN LINEHAN: What?

[0:52:20.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The question that we asked Katie.

[0:52:22.2] ERIN LINEHAN: What was the question we asked Katie?

[0:52:23.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Did we answer that during her episode?

[0:52:25.3] ERIN LINEHAN: What was it?

[0:52:25.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: To kidnap you, what would need to be written on a white van to kidnap you?

[0:52:30.5] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah. Gosh, that’s a tough question.

[0:52:34.8] ERIN LINEHAN: What would have to be written on the white – on the van.

[0:52:37.2] AMY MOORE: What do you think, Anna? What would be written on your white van?

[0:52:38.8] ERIN LINEHAN: She said free coffee, but that was a good idea.

[0:52:40.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Donuts. I love me some pastries.

[0:52:43.8] AMY MOORE: Donuts. You’d be done.

[0:52:46.7] ERIN LINEHAN: #VanLife. I’ll get in there in a second.

[0:52:50.4] AMY MOORE: Maybe coffee. Butter coffee.

[0:52:53.3] ERIN LINEHAN: She said coffee.

[0:52:55.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Butter cream cake. Butter cream ice frosting and cake.

[0:52:58.8] AMY MOORE: Your eyes just lit up.

[0:53:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.

[0:53:01.0] AMY MOORE: Butter cream?

[0:53:02.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I love some butter cream.

[0:53:03.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Christmas morning when you still believe in Santa. Yeah.

[0:53:07.4] AMY MOORE: Erin? Anything to get in that van?

[0:53:12.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Garmin watch?

[0:53:14.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Free Garmin watches, I’m in.

[0:53:16.6] AMY MOORE: There you go.

[0:53:17.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, that’s right.

[0:53:18.5] AMY MOORE: All right so do we have any nuggets for the week?

[0:53:21.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think pay attention to your body, or your food rules.

[0:53:27.5] AMY MOORE: Or good food, bad food? Your labels?

[0:53:29.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Notice what you’re telling yourself about foods. You guys like that?

[0:53:34.9] ERIN LINEHAN: How intuitive you are when you’re eating just with those principles I think is fascinating. We’ll post them in the show notes.

[0:53:42.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, trying to get that connection of your body and your food.

[0:53:48.3] ERIN LINEHAN: All right, everybody. Let’s land this plane. Land the plane.

[0:53:51.5] AMY MOORE: Here it comes.

[0:53:53.2] ERIN LINEHAN: All right.

[0:53:53.8] AMY MOORE: Have a good one.

[0:53:55.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Bye-bye.

[0:53:55.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bye.


[0:53:57.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We have a great new way for you to support the show. If you love what we’re doing, go hit up the Less Alone Podcast swag shop. We got so much awesome stuff. All the proceeds go to supporting the show, so we can create more awesome content for you. What stuff did you guys get?

[0:54:14.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I got the black sweatshirt and the green trucker hat.

[0:54:16.3] AMY MOORE: I got a white hoodie and a coffee cup.

[0:54:19.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. I got the hat and a shirt. It’s so cute. Go there, lessalonepodcast.com, hit swag shop and get yourself hooked up.

[0:54:28.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Take a picture and tag us on Instagram, or any other social media and we’ll –

[0:54:33.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’ll repost it.

[0:54:34.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.


[0:54:38.5] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com. If you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.


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