EP4: How to be a Terrible Friend
Welcome back to the Less Alone Podcast! We start off with our experiences from the listening challenge then we talk about what it means to be a terrible friend. Last week we talked about how to be a good friend, so today we are flipping the switch to really dig deep and find out what qualifies as being a bad friend. In our conversation, we define one-sided relationships, we look at what causes people to get into unhealthy relationship cycles, and how EMDR can be used to get to the root of your issues. Next, we discover why conflict is not always a bad thing and how to use the rupture and repair technique to communicate in relationships and sort through recurring problems. We also discuss the difference between toxic vs. bad relationships and learn how to set those must-have boundaries by teaching others how they should be treating you. So for an incredible episode on the intricacies of friendship, be sure to join us today!
Key Points From This Episode:
- A shout-out to our listeners and their reviews
- What we learned and our experience with the “listening challenge”
- Why children often feel less heard and why it’s important to give them that space
- Outlining the characteristics of what a bad friend is
- Understanding what a one-sided friendship looks like
- Why people often repeat patterns from their childhood in their friendships
- The benefits of using EMDR to get to the root of a problem
- Stories of our personal experiences of being a bad friend
- Why conflict isn’t necessarily bad
- Understanding the concept of rupture and repair
- 9 tips for making a true apology
- Learning to differentiate between toxic and bad relationships
- Recognizing gut instinct versus fear
- Implementing boundaries: teaching others how to treat you
- Practical tips to get out of toxic relationships
- Awareness challenge: learning to use “I feel” statements
- And much more!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
- Less Alone Podcast Website,Newsletter, Facebook Community, Facebook page, Instagram, Twitter
- Bloomin Onion-Outback
- Crystal Hines, Co-Founder of The Kali Institute
- The Kali Institute
- What is EMDR?
- Peak Performance EMDR
- Richard Rohr
- Garth Brooks
- The Dance of Connection
- How to Apologize by Harriet Lerner Ph.D author of the Dance of Connection
- Article: 7 Types of Toxic People and How to Spot Them
- Link to Anna’s “Ways to Say ‘No’ PDF
Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!
LESS ALONE PODCAST Transcript
Season 1, Episode 4: How to be a Terrible Friend
AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.
ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.
AMY MOORE: All right. Welcome back, everybody. Glad you’re here for episode number four. The topic today is How to Ruin a Friendship.
ERIN LINEHAN: How to be the worst friend ever.
AMY MOORE: Awesome.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: All righty!
AMY MOORE: So, we’re going to start off with a couple notes from our listeners and with some feedback.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah, yeah. Reviews, let’s do some reviews.
AMY MOORE: Reviews! All right, here we go. So we heard from Rebecca F. and she said, “Yes. This is exactly what the world needs now, a podcast all about meaningful connection. I feel this is going to resonate with so many people.” Thanks Rebecca.
ERIN LINEHAN: Thanks Rebecca.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s so nice, and you give us a five star review.
AMY MOORE: All right, we’ve got another one here from Chantelle. She says, “Thank you. Loved it. Felt less alone. I was so surprised how less alone I felt just by listening and I am accepting the three question challenge.”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: That is so cool.
AMY MOORE: Thank you, Chantelle! Thanks for the five stars.
ERIN LINEHAN: Let us know how it goes.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, I can’t wait to hear how that goes.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that’s so awesome. Yeah, your reviews help the podcast be found and we’re so thankful for those because it’s literally the easiest thing you could do is just to share with your friends as we try to get this off the ground.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, keep them coming.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: And like it’s also so great to hear feedback about what you’re thinking, how you’re like in it. All that stuff. It’s it’s awesome.
Also, so we had a great share from @happinessismyjam. She shared a picture of her coffee cup. It was so cool. We were like, “Awe!”
AMY MOORE: That was so sweet!
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I handle the social media for our Instagram and I had to forward it to Erin and Amy and I was just like, “Look how sweet this is!” So thanks for sharing the love and we love seeing your pictures.
AMY MOORE: Because it was a picture of her Starbucks cup, right?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, with the big “thank you” on it.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Good detail to add there!
ERIN LINEHAN: Add the pieces in.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, add those pieces in. So yeah, so, so great.
ERIN LINEHAN: So the listener challenge. Well, not listener, listening.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Listening challenge, yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: How did it go?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: So it went really good. It was — So it was last episode that I said that I, when I had done this in the past, I had gotten the feedback of like, “Oh my Gosh, I’ve never shared this with anyone before.” Or like, “Why am I telling you this?” And then this week, when I worked on it, I had a friend tell me that, okay, we had coffee. It sounds like I just am always having coffee. I work at a coffee shop a lot of times, so —
ERIN LINEHAN: I think you are always having coffee.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is why I’m all, like, hopped up. Like, I drink a lot of coffee, apparently. But so I met a friend for coffee and then the next day she said that she’s like, “I felt so giddy after we hung out.” So I took that as like – a good sign.
AMY MOORE: Oh, that is good.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I was like, “That’s nice. Like, I don’t know what I did. I worked on listening really well and asking questions.” So I mean, that was pretty good feedback. How to go for you two?
ERIN LINEHAN: I noticed that when I ask questions, and then you give space for a pause and then just sit in that with whoever’s talking, it is amazing what comes out of, like how the person opens up and shares after that. But if there is no pause and like waiting for whatever to percolate inside, then you don’t get that. So for me to take a breath because I just want to keep on, like, firing things off, it has opened up like then it unfolds the conversation to a place where I did not anticipated going.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s so cool. You know what I just pictured when you said unfolding? A blooming onion? Aren’t those things amazing?
AMY MOORE: A what?
AMY MOORE: That is so random!
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was like, “Unfolding like a blooming onion.”
AMY MOORE: Oh my gosh!
ERIN LINEHAN: I was ready for this profound like, “Oh, I’m going to tell you about unfolding; the lotus flower.” No, the blooming onion from Outback!
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think they’re so good. I haven’t had any of them forever.
AMY MOORE: I don’t think I’ve ever had one? Well, I think aren’t they also at like a fair? You can get him at a fair?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Probably?
ERIN LINEHAN: Next to the funnel cake? Is that with fried butter?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh yeah. It’s a deep fried situation. With like, you dip it in like 1,000 Island/ranch situation. Oh, my word. So delicious. We’ve got to go to Outback.
ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t about that. I don’t eat meat. Come on now.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: A blooming onion is an onion.
ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right.
AMY MOORE: Oh, boy. All right, I’m gonna take us back way.
ERIN LINEHAN: Captain focus.
AMY MOORE: Yes, here we go. I think my listening challenge I really with my son this week I focused on it the most and just really trying to — both my kids, but also just thank them for whatever they want to talk — you know, like, “Oh, I’m so glad you could tell me this.” Or, “Of course, you can tell me anything.” You know, and then just really listening and being patient and, you know, giving them the space they need and I don’t know I think sometimes, like kids or, you know, younger people don’t always get the same listening respect. Or I don’t know what it is, but just the same listening from adults that, like you might give a friend.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it is respect.
AMY MOORE: I think it is respect too. So I really work — that’s like my big focus right now is just really trying to engaged, be engaged and listening
ERIN LINEHAN: I was somewhere, I think, out at a restaurant or a coffee shop and there was a woman with a really little kid, and she was so intently paying attention to this kid. It was so beautiful to watch because the kid was so excited to be talking to her and she was so in it and it was a magical moment at this table.
AMY MOORE: Yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, that’s so cool.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s a big deal when kids — because I don’t think it’s the same space.
AMY MOORE: No, I don’t either.
ERIN LINEHAN: People are trying to rush them all the time.
AMY MOORE: Right.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: And they often need a lot of rushing.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, I mean, well because I think like their little brain, you know, it’s like there’s just a process is obviously. Like processing so differently, and sometimes you want them to be up. Come on!
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, “Let’s get a move on.”
AMY MOORE: Yeah, but and sometimes those little tangents are —
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, well, and if I don’t know —
AMY MOORE: Kids always reign in the tangents that my kids go on. Let’s put it that way.
ERIN LINEHAN: Amy does a great job Anna and I, so that’s great.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes, that’s super helpful. Well, and if kids don’t feel like heard with the little things, then they won’t feel safe to tell you the big things. So it’s like making space and even just having eye contact with him and so huge.
AMY MOORE: All right, So what else are you doing here?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: So today’s topic is how to be the worst friend ever and we heard some really great things on our social media about what you all said. So last week, we talked about how to be a good friend, and this week is all about how to be a bad friend. So, Sarah Y on actually this one is on my personal Facebook profile, she says, “The qualities of a bad friend would be someone who never listens to me and only ever wants to talk when they need to vent, someone who makes plans and consistently flakes on me, someone who’s always willing to offer me solutions based on their own experience but never willing to just let me feel my feelings without being awkward about it.” So good.
Then Deanne G says, “A bad friend is someone who blames you for everything wrong in the relationship.” Yeah, so lots of things. Lots of feedback. Gabriel, T. said, “Same basic things that would make you a bad boyfriend or girlfriend. I’ve known people that I swear were in emotionally abusive relationships. One doesn’t respect the other’s boundaries, and the other had a hard time asserting herself with that person and can’t bring herself to leave the friendship.” So yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: So various ideas about respect and showing up for people in a reciprocal relationship. Yeah. So what does it mean to be a bad friend? What does that look like? And so the first thing that we had on here was that one sided-friendships. And so, what do one sided friendships look like?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, gosh. One sided friendships, I would say always feeling like you’re giving without receiving and then you’re just getting dumped on and not listened to also, maybe? What about you two?
AMY MOORE: I think too, like I think we touched on this, I think, last episode. But the advice giving or like unsolicited. Like when some when one friend is always the advice giver, solicited or not, you know, I think that that can often times be so one sided that then it’s hard to make that one work.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think, also too when people don’t listen and they like are thinking about other things when you’re talking, I think that this hard and I had another one, but it’s out of my head right now. It’ll come back,
AMY MOORE: But a lot — I agree with a lot of what the people wrote in and said, you know? Like it’s just that it’s It’s a give and take, right? Like there has to be some kind of equal give and take in a relationship and a respect and if that’s not there, it’s going to be one sided and hard to keep a friendship like that, or any relationship.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, there was a really funny one that Sarah —@Sarahm oh, no, I forgot her last name. @Sarah said and she said, “A quality of a bad friend is someone who steals your babysitter.”
AMY MOORE: Oh, I totally agree with that! I totally agree with that. I’ve had that happen. Yes.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I remember you telling me that you don’t share your babysitter.
AMY MOORE: Yes, I’ve been burned.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: And it’s like, “Well, yeah. That makes sense.”
ERIN LINEHAN: That does make sense.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, ugh those babysitters. Hard to come by.
AMY MOORE: Previous, precious resource.
ERIN LINEHAN: So, this — all this one-sided stuff has be thinking about not only what does it look like, but why do people tend to put up with relationships that are one sided? And so I don’t, you know, I’m not a therapist. So then is that tied to self-worth or they’re just tired, or is it trauma? Because this is what they’re used to. And so often times people will repeat the same patterns that they had with whoever their caregivers were or their parents were when they were growing up.
And so when we look for friendships or even when we couple off into whoever our partners are, that if we had toxic things that happened when we were kids that we will repeat those same patterns because ultimately people are looking for health in their systems, and so they’ll find someone that that they energetically and subconsciously can repair that wound with. And so then we’ll go and be friends with them. But if the people are not healthy or haven’t worked on their stuff then those same attachment wounds and patterns happen, and then it’s super painful to people
ANNA NEWELL JONES: So, is this why people like tend to go for like, crappy men?
ERIN LINEHAN: Or when they’re like, “I date the same person repeatedly. Over, and over, and over”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, and it’s just like, “Why is this happening? Like why do they choose terrible people?”
ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, so I don’t know across the board. But generally like people are like looking for to heal something similar to like if, maybe this feels off topic? But like if someone had a sexual assault, like some people are like scared to death of being sexually intimate at all and then some people go very promiscuous, and that’s because people want to fix that wound. So they want to redo that trauma. So then, in some ways, they could do it. But because they’re caught in this loop, then they can’t do it because their system doesn’t know how to course correct, because it’s traumatized.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: So how would — is there a way to quickly tell us how someone could get out of that loop? I feel like since we since this got brought up, we should kind of talk about it.
ERIN LINEHAN: Good. Don’t just lay that out there and guess! Just kidding.
AMY MOORE: it’s gotta be so subconscious though.
ERIN LINEHAN: It is super subconscious.
AMY MOORE: Having the awareness of even like what you just said, it’s like, “What?”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh my gosh, yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think that it’s a lot of it is doing your own work and if you have patterns of people that you are generally friends with or romantic partners and then you notice like, “Huh, I always have this thing in this thing and this thing. Like why does this,” — If it’s ever coming out of your mouth that you’re dating or friending the same types of people that are hurtful and harmful to you, then what is that pattern? And it’s worth looking at. So that’s either you can do, I mean, there’s plenty of self help books about that. There’s a therapist that you could go to or there’s all sorts of different resources that people can do. But it’s it’s noticing that that pattern is happening and then taking the steps do something differently. But you have to investigate whatever the wound is or else you just keep on trying to heal it. Does that make sense?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, definitely.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
ERIN LINEHAN: Well, it’s not very like a — that’s not a life hack. You’re definitely not going to learn a life hack with that. Great one, “Not marry my father.” There’s no life hack for that.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh gosh. Here’s a two-second great tip for ya!
ERIN LINEHAN: Like, I got nothing for that.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, I do have to say, so I actually started seeing Crystal and The Kali Institute and doing EMDR. The Kali Institute is Erin’s business with Crystal, and I couldn’t see Erin because we’re friends. So I saw Crystal and I’ve been doing EMDR to try to, like, pull out the root ball of any trauma that, like manifests itself today. And so it’s been so powerful doing the EMDR and actually some members of our Facebook group, they’ve actually mentioned EMDR too.
ERIN LINEHAN: EMDR is amazing.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so amazing!
AMY MOORE: I’ve done it a couple of times, yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: It is amazing.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a game changer. Like yeah. So amazing.
ERIN LINEHAN: Because it gets to essentially, like, if you think if you’re weeding the garden right and you have if you pick the tops of the leaves off like you’ve cleared the space for a little bit but because the roots are still in the ground than the thing comes back. And so if you can get the roots out than that particular weed won’t grow back. Or if you have, like a hurt, let’s say that you had a huge splinter and that one in your arm, and it wasn’t bleeding anymore, but every time you like touched it, it hurt because it was jostling the wound. So if he took the splinter out, which is also the root of things than the wound, has an opportunity to heal.
So EMDR helps you to do that with all sorts of things and where that is helpful is the same thing with patterning is like when the same thing keeps showing up like, in the present. Like, “Why do I keep doing this? Why do we keep this thing keeps on? Coming up for this type of person drives me crazy?” Then that’s worth taking a deeper look, and it’s amazing with the brain science about how that works out because it just subtly like changes and they’re like, “Huh!” I had, I was working with someone along the line and they had a confrontation with someone and they were like, worked on it and then they went back to the situation when that person they were like, “I tried to get pissed at that and I couldn’t” because it had, like, just desensitized the emotional reaction to them and then they were like, “Huh, I still don’t like to be around this person, per se, but I’m not. I don’t like I want to scream at them.” Which is a big deal.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so powerful. And like I’ve used EMDR, we’ve done a lot with like, the peak performance idea of laying not just using EMDR to heal past traumas, but to get to the next level of like —
ERIN LINEHAN: Prepare yourself for it. Yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. So I did some stuff with, like, doing a speaking gig in Budapest last year, and it was like, “Okay, how do I get past this fear of public speaking?” And so I used EMDR to kind of go, to propel forward so it can be used in that way too.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think the only reason why I’m on the doing able to do this podcast is because I had to do EMDR on my public speaking because with stuff like that, I do that with people. But then I also have done a ton of it myself and it has been super super helpful. But I had to use the same thing, yes.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: And you create new pathways in your brain, right? It’s amazing. Okay, —
AMY MOORE: Which is a great — I mean, that sounds like exactly resource someone could look into to fix the patterns or to address them.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Yeah, because ultimately we can’t control other people. Right? But we can control, like how we respond and react to situations. And it’s really great when we can get a little bit of space so that we can not react and we can respond because when we have space, then there’s choice, and then you can choose how you want to handle the situation. So we need that pause. When people talk about like the “sacred pause”, I love that because it’s hard to do and and it is, feel sacred when we can.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, for sure. I talk a lot about the pause with the spending. It’s just like, put a pause between you and your purchase so that you are just building that space in so that you don’t do the automatic response in the automatic like habit. So man, that pause.
ERIN LINEHAN: The pause.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: The pause is powerful.
AMY MOORE: Yeah it is.
ERIN LINEHAN: And on with the, just to piggyback off the EMDR stuff is that there’s this Richard Rohr quote is that “if we don’t transform our suffering than we’ll transmit it”, and I think this has everything to do with, if we haven’t healed whatever it is, then we will throw that up on other people and I think this is has a big, big, big relationship to why people are bad friends or can’t show up for other people. Because a lot of times it’s because people I believe are doing the best that they can and sometimes that best may not feel like it’s very good for us, right? But they’re doing the best they can. And so, but if they have a lot of shit, then that’s what happens.
AMY MOORE: I think about that with parenting, that quote just like, you know, if you don’t deal with your own stuff, you’re going to put it on. I mean, it’s just like the cycles of, you know, generational cycles and things that happen over and over. And, you know, you got to deal with your own stuff if you don’t want to continue the patterns or put them on your kids.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, to break the cycle.
AMY MOORE: You’re right.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yep, Absolutely. Yep. Cool.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: We have a note here. “If you’re a D bag, there’s a ripple effect.” That is, Erin said that.
ERIN LINEHAN: I worked really hard not to curse in this podcast. I’m trying hard here.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was thinking you might miss that so I was like, “Wait, wait, we’ve moved on to the next one.”
ERIN LINEHAN: My mouth is terrible. I try.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have a hard time not cussing too, so I totally get it.
ERIN LINEHAN: It’s hard.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s hard.
ERIN LINEHAN: I left the D in last time because I said we needed that for effect so we had to put the explicit on the last one.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, and I ended up sharing that text. We may have to share that text on the Instagram.
AMY MOORE: Oh I think I definitely have to share that text.
ERIN LINEHAN: Okay, what is it?
AMY MOORE: It’s hilarious!
ANNA NEWELL JONES: You were sending me editing notes and you’re like, “I think when you leave the D in.”
AMY MOORE: It was so funny.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: The D-I-C-K in and I was like, “What?” and like, it was kind of like there was a pause.
ERIN LINEHAN: I didn’t even know! I didn’t even know and I was like, “What is she, making some kind of joke out of this?” I’m like, “I think we need to do this.”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “We definitely need to.”
AMY MOORE: It was a great — that was a, yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It was so funny. You were like, “quote being a D.”
AMY MOORE: Yeah. That’s definitely Instagram worthy.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. We’re going to have to share that. It was super funny.
ERIN LINEHAN: “Just listen.” That’s what I was thinking. But then I’m like, “Oh, just know that you’re being ridiculous. I’m being ridiculous.”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I will always find the D jokes.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, that’s true.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: All right, so have you ever been a bad friend?
AMY MOORE: Oh, yes. Oh my gosh.
ERIN LINEHAN: Who has not been a bad friend?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: So I’m not the only one.
ERIN LINEHAN: Most definitely not.
AMY MOORE: Far from it.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do we want to talk about any instances? Okay, so I remember when I was — I’m all, “Do we want to talk about. any?” “Oh I have a story! Oh, I’m so glad you asked.”
ERIN LINEHAN: Thanks for sharing. This is great.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, thanks for asking. I have a story to share.
Okay, so back when I was in my early 20s and I was a total d-bag, totally unhealthy. I have my old college roommate, Shayla. Hey, what’s up Shayla? A little shout out. We ended up – she asked me to be her maid of honor and I was a bad friend, because I did not go dress shopping with her when she wanted. I chose to do yoga instead. Bad friend alert. I was being selfish.
It’s like I think about the airplane situation when they’re like, “Put your mask on first.” It’s like, you can’t be a healthy friend, or a good friend if you are too self-consumed. Maybe that’s a bad example. That doesn’t really make any sense actually right. You have to work on yourself, right?
ERIN LINEHAN: Well, that’s good boundaries Anna, if you needed to go to yoga.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, it wasn’t well-received, I guess.
AMY MOORE: Yeah. I mean, it’s also important to show up for the bride-to-be and that’s a big deal to get your dress. If you’re in the wedding and that might be really important to her. Sometimes it’s important to put your yoga needs aside.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I mean, I didn’t – this was when I was doing hot yoga five times a week. It was like, you know, I was being a d-bag.
AMY MOORE: You know that, right? Your gut knows whether or not you were happy with the friend that you were being.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I was not happy with the friend I was being.
ERIN LINEHAN: It feels that bad whenever you realize –
AMY MOORE: It does feel bad.
ERIN LINEHAN: It feels bad when you do that.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I’m sorry, Shayla, if I’ve never told you sorry before.
AMY MOORE: Maybe we’ll hear from Shayla.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Oh, I talk to her all the time. How about you two?
AMY MOORE: I feel in my past when I’ve been a real d-bag, I just ghost people. It’s like, “See ya.” Or I don’t know.
ERIN LINEHAN: Good thing we’re friends now.
AMY MOORE: I know. I’ve been ghosted – it’s just like, I don’t know. I think sometimes in my ideal self, and maybe as I get older and probably healthier myself, I’m able to be a little bit more authentic and hey, maybe you’re cool. I don’t know. In the past, it’s just been like, done. That’s not cool.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just stop all communication. Moved out of the country?
AMY MOORE: Kind of. Yeah. Or really, I have moved to different states, or different –then it’s just done.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think for me, when like, during – it was a particularly rough patch of time and I was in my stuff. I would just perseverate and I couldn’t get out of the –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: What is perseverate mean?
ERIN LINEHAN: To just keep on talking about the same thing that over and over and over, I could get in this loop. The whole dumping thing, I would just dump and it was not pretty and not awesome for my friends that were dealing with me at the time.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Like, “Oh, we’re talking about this again.”
ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Great. Great. Totally unaware of that anybody else had a – They had a life.
AMY MOORE: Because it’s all about you.
ERIN LINEHAN: It sure was.
AMY MOORE: I’ve been there before too. It’s so embarrassing.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Then you come out of it and you’re like –
AMY MOORE: I sucked.
ERIN LINEHAN: I’m in debt to you forever. Yeah. Yeah. That’s how that shows up.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do what you can. Live and learn.
AMY MOORE: Make your amend if you need to and see what happens and move right on.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yup. Try not to be a d-bag.
ERIN LINEHAN: True. True. Right. Right.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Conflicts. Are they all bad? Let’s talk about this.
ERIN LINEHAN: I did not think that they’re all bad. I think if people are throwing their stuff around, I think, then they can be painful. I think we need conflict. We just need it.
AMY MOORE: I feel rupture and repair is something I do, just parenting. I only know that it’s called rupture and repair, because of you, Erin. I knew nothing about these concepts. Yeah. Now I know. There’s a term for it. I feel even with my kids, I’ll get sad lately, or I’ll get angry. I just have these human emotions that are not at all about them, but it’s like, I want them to know like, “Hey, yeah. Mom’s having these feelings. This has nothing to do with you guys.” I want to acknowledge them and then I want them to know it’s okay. Then I want them to know like, “I love you. This has nothing to do with you. I’m just having a day and it’s okay.”
ERIN LINEHAN: Which is great modeling.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah.
AMY MOORE: Well, thank you. I think it’s really important though, because I feel as a kid, if you see these emotions, but then you’re told like, “Oh, no, no. Everything’s fine. Everything’s fine.” That’s so crazy making.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Or if they’re crying and it’s like, “Oh, you’re okay, you’re okay.” It’s like, “Wait, wait, wait. No. Maybe they’re not okay.”
ERIN LINEHAN: It’s okay not to be okay.
AMY MOORE: Yes.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Letting them know that you can have these hard emotions and I’m going to love you no matter what. That is so powerful to be like, let’s not shut this S-H-I-T down. Let’s walk through it. I’m going to love you. We’re going to do this. It’s fine.
AMY MOORE: We’re going acknowledge it. We’re going to name it. We’re going to move on. I guess, maybe that’s not really rupture and repair, or is it?
ERIN LINEHAN: Rupture and repair is when you have something in between two people, right? You rupture the relationship in some way. It can be small, or it can be big. This is a building block of trust. That when you can come back and repair the relationship. How we do that, is that to create emotional space for whatever emotions are there, so what you were talking about. Then focus on the impact. What did this do? This is how this impacted me whatever the thing went down, right? Then explicitly own all the part of this. With your kid, it sounds like that is what you’re doing with your kids. It doesn’t have to be this huge massive blow up, but I think that rupture and repair I think happens all the time.
When I was coaching high school kids and if I came down on someone too hard, or something happened then, I check myself. It’s just a checking of yourself, if the kid – if you see that someone else is, or you can feel that something is not okay with that person. Then you –
AMY MOORE: Oh, we’ve done that. You and me. Yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: Absolutely. It’s a big deal. Then that helps build – that builds a stronger sense of trust. That happened that coffee too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then when someone comes back and this happened, then sure, it doesn’t take away what happened in the incident. I still have to work through whatever the thing is. The fact that you’ve noticed and you can witness that this didn’t sit very well, then that is a huge deal, but it’s really hard for people to do this, because this has – you have to get out of your own right to be able to be like, “Hey, I effed up. I mean, this is what happened.” Or like, are you okay?
AMY MOORE: Just the vulnerability again.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel the ego is usually leading this show. If it’s like, I can’t even admit that I was wrong, because that would be so detrimental to me as a human being by saying I’m wrong. You have to have that certain level of healthiness to be able to say, “You know what? I was wrong in this and I would like to find a way to make it right.” If you can’t even entertain that idea, what do you do with that?
ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good question. Come to see me, that’s if you do.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Another two-minute hack.
AMY MOORE: Life hacks all over the place.
ERIN LINEHAN: When I have really trouble and hard time noting my own stuff, how do we have a life hack for that? You don’t. That’s what you do.
AMY MOORE: We’re all about the life hacks today.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Just a quick little fixers.
ERIN LINEHAN: On that note, so we talked about put this somewhere in for about direct communication, because I have thought a lot about this. The three of us are very direct with each other. I am generally very direct in my life and some people appreciate that and some people are taken aback by that. I am curious about what your experiences and why it is or is not important to you two.
AMY MOORE: Take it away, Anna.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I’m going first? Okay.
AMY MOORE: You are.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Have we talked about this already?
ERIN LINEHAN: Not on here, right? Did we?
AMY MOORE: Not in this – we did talk about –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Was it last episode?
AMY MOORE: – direct communication. Yeah, I think our last episode.
ERIN LINEHAN: Well, that’s how important I think it is.
AMY MOORE: Yes, yes. I think thought to talk about direct communication in context of being a bad friend, or having these friendships that don’t really work, I mean, it’s super important.
ERIN LINEHAN: Very difficult.
AMY MOORE: Very difficult. Can make or break relationships. I mean, and also, if you’re in a relationship with someone who has a different level of direct communication, or a different style or whatever, it might be really challenging.
ERIN LINEHAN: I agree.
AMY MOORE: Erin, I know it’s such a – do you have anything you want to say? Anything that’s – I don’t know. You’re thinking about it.
ERIN LINEHAN: It’s impossible to do rupture and repair, unless you can talk directly about what’s happening. It is difficult and it brings up all sorts of anxiety and nervousness with people. In order to create trust and relationships, if something has – you have said something, or you have unintentionally did something, it doesn’t mean that you’re intentionally trying to hurt the other person. Whether it was intentional or not, if it did hurt the other person, then there needs to be some acknowledgment about that and then owning whatever it is that you did. That is a level of direct communication that I think is very uncomfortable for people.
If people can adopt that more and like we said oh, yeah, we did talk about it, because I used don’t be a dick. It’s the same thing with this. It has a lot to do with intention, building trust. Yes. I mean, this is not an easy thing to do and be like, “Hey, I think this happened.”
AMY MOORE: The power of it can be so great.
ERIN LINEHAN: Massive.
AMY MOORE: I mean, I think just trust building, it’s just like, oh, my gosh. It can just really, really, really drive that connection to a whole new level.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s easy for me to do with you too, but how do you do it – for people, I feel I’m trying to think about when this would be hard for me to do, is a new friendship, or a new relationship where it’s like, we don’t necessarily have that history of having the trust, or knowing this isn’t going to sever the relationship, or damage it. How do you –
AMY MOORE: You take the risk.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: You take the risk.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think that the –
AMY MOORE: Because I think if it’s worth it, if the friendship’s going to last, or if there is a deeper connection that you’re looking for, you have to try to put yourself out there and be vulnerable.
ERIN LINEHAN: Even if you don’t think they’re going to be – for me, even if they’re not going to be friends and it’s a checker at the store, or I cut someone – not my car, because that’s a whole different story. If I did something in to a stranger and then I was like, “Oh, sorry.” I think that goes along. Even things –
AMY MOORE: Just having your stuff.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, having awareness around your stuff.
AMY MOORE: Don’t be a D.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, don’t be a D. I might be like, “Oh, man. I did this thing to – I can’t believe I said this, or whatever.” If it’s bothering me, it may have nothing to do.” The other person would be like, “What are you talking about?”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. If it’s got a hook in you. If you can’t stop thinking about it, that’s a good –
AMY MOORE: That’s a good indicate. Yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: When I said this, or send them a text, or whatever the thing is, or next time you see them. When I said this or this came up, I don’t know how to set with you, and so it didn’t feel very good for me to say that. Then I was just wanting to check and to see if you’re okay.
AMY MOORE: Erin, are you a therapist?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think you might be really good at that.
AMY MOORE: That was really good roleplay.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Gosh, you’re, like, really good at that.
ERIN LINEHAN: I can’t get out of the brain. I can’t get out of it.
AMY MOORE: It’s good. It’s so helpful. Really good. Just great. Great perspective. Thank you.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, something else I was just thinking as you were explaining that so well and doing that wonderful example is that in friendships or relationships in general, if they’re meant to be, you literally can’t do anything wrong.
ERIN LINEHAN: Keep going.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I believe in things being meant to be, right? Forces outside of us, or a greater energy force guiding us. I feel if there are people that are supposed to be in your life, or relationships you’re supposed to have, you literally can’t do anything wrong. I mean, you can’t push people away. Confronting them about something that you messed up about. That’s not going to be so –
ERIN LINEHAN: Detrimental?
AMY MOORE: Especially if it’s you owning it. I messed up here.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. If that’s someone that you’re supposed to be friends with, or have in your life, it’s like, you can’t do anything so bad that it would –
ERIN LINEHAN: Sever ties.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, does that make sense?
ERIN LINEHAN: Or someone reject you. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. Because I feel like –
AMY MOORE: I think with that said, there is still the care of a relationship.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Not to say that you have to just set it and forget it, or yeah, this is meant to be. We’re going to be friends no matter what. It’s like, you have to be a responsible person in a relationship and own your stuff. I feel if you are supposed to be friends with someone, or you’re supposed to have a certain interaction with a relationship, then it’s you can’t do anything wrong in a sense.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think about that a lot with decision-making. When people come and they’re like, “I just feel so stuck. I don’t know what to do.” You can’t make a wrong decision. Just go with whatever, however that path that takes you and you eventually wind up back where you’re supposed to be. Maybe you needed to learn this thing over here, or maybe you need this type of experience so it could help you further along. Not that people have a predetermined, like this is the path that you’re going to take, but I don’t think that you can take – at least I don’t believe that. I think that we have choice. Yeah, I think that it’s along the same –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: There’s purpose in every decision.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, absolutely.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just recently, I was telling Amy, I’m like, “Ah, gosh. I’m so glad I didn’t get what I wanted.”
ERIN LINEHAN: Years ago.
AMY MOORE: I know you did. Yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Man. I don’t know what I was thinking, but the –
AMY MOORE: What you thought you needed?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: You’re singing Garth Brooks?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.
ERIN LINEHAN: Unanswered prayers?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Just can’t do anything wrong if you’re supposed to get to a certain point. We’re getting deep here.
AMY MOORE: Conflict, are they necessary? I think we’re good, right? All right, so there was a great article on how to apologize.. It was from Harriet Lerner PhD, the author of The Dance of Connection.. I’ll read these nine tips. Number one, a true apology does not include the word ‘but’. A true apology wouldn’t be something like, “I’m sorry, but.”
ERIN LINEHAN: Because it negates everything before it.
AMY MOORE: Yeah. Number two, a true apology keeps the focus on your actions and not on the other person’s response.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s so hard.
AMY MOORE: You got to own it. Number three, a true apology does not overdo. It stays focused on acknowledging the feelings of the hurt party, without overshadowing them with your own pain or remorse.
ERIN LINEHAN: That is so important.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, because then it’s not making it about you.
ERIN LINEHAN: Whenever someone did something to you and they’re sorry about what happened and they have so much shame about what they did, and then it always goes into a shame spiral when they’re talking about whatever it is, however, they hurt you. It’s like, what is happening?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Literally, what is happening?
AMY MOORE: What is happening here? Good lord. All right, let’s see. Number four, a true apology doesn’t get caught up in who’s to blame, or who started it. Number five, a true apology needs to be backed by corrective action.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, it does.
AMY MOORE: It’s good. Number six, a true apology requires that you do your best to avoid a repeat performance. Number seven, a true apology should not serve to silence another person. For example, “I said I’m sorry at least 10 times. Why are you still bringing up the affair?” Ouch.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: You can forgive someone and not forgive the action.
AMY MOORE: You can also think you’re forgiving someone and then you’re really holding onto it.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that’s true.
AMY MOORE: You want to so bad, but it takes work to really forgive, I think.
ERIN LINEHAN: Ultimately, forgiveness is not about the other person. Forgiveness is about you letting go of whatever that thing is, so it’s not holding you down forever. I think people also often get confused that forgiveness is about making it okay that oh, it’s okay that this person did this thing and it’s not okay that you get – they are not mutually exclusive. You can forgive them and it’s still not okay that that happened. If you did rupture and repair, right, then you can move forward from it in some cases.
AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah. All right, number eight, a true apology should not be offered to make you feel better if it risks making the hurt party feel worse. Number nine, a true apology recognizes when I’m sorry is not enough.
ERIN LINEHAN: What do you think of those?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: They’re good.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think they’re real good.
AMY MOORE: I think they’re really good, definitely. I think it’s just you got to be a bigger person. I mean, if you’re saying sorry and that’s true and authentic to what you’re feeling, or you’re – we’re hearing some things upstairs. I think it’s just people walking around. Yeah, creaky. We are recording in a very old building and sometimes there are some interesting noises. Yeah. No, I think those are really good. Yeah. Should we move on to the next one? It says we’ve got some – there’s an article here about seven types of toxic people and how to spot them.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: What’s the difference between toxic and just bad, or are they exactly the same? What do you two think?
ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I think toxic is that if every time – I can ask you these questions.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, okay. Let’s hear it. Let’s do that.
ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Okay. From this article. It says, these are questions to ask yourself. Because I think bad is a period of time, right? Toxic is this is just the pattern of the relationship, probably because someone is transmitting their suffering all over everyone.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is from the scienceofpeople.com.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. We’ll post this on the show notes. Okay. Are you constantly having to save this person? You fix their problems and you are covering up or hiding for them? You dread seeing them? You feel drained after being with them? You get angry, sad, or depressed when you are around them? They cause you to gossip or be mean? You feel you have to impress them? You are affected by their drama or their problems? They ignore your needs and don’t hear no?
I think that is the – those are the questions to ask yourself, because bad could be a period of time, right? That someone’s not able to show up for whatever reason, but I think when that consistently happens with that person, it’s worth looking at. For me, I know that people can be toxic if I am the worst version of myself. How do I do – How did this happen?
AMY MOORE: Or like, “Why am I acting like this again?” Like, “Oh, here I am hanging out with that person again.”
ERIN LINEHAN: I can’t stop myself from behaving that way and it feels terrible. Even in the midst of it, but it’s energetically interwoven with that, with whatever it is with the dynamic with that person. That’s how I know that I’m like, “Uh, this feels bad.”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, so good.
ERIN LINEHAN: Right. To pay attention to red flags with toxic relationships, so is it fear, or is a red flag. Red flags, if you ask yourselves the questions that we just said. If you feel you need to protect the other person, or omit details about the situation – your body knows. If you are trying to convince yourself of one thing and then your body is freaking out, or panicking, or sweating, or whatever’s happening where it shows signs of anxiety, or you’re clenching.
AMY MOORE: Physiologically.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, physiologically that your body will know before your mind does.
AMY MOORE: You have a sinking feeling that you don’t want to pay attention to.
ERIN LINEHAN: That happens a lot to people. Sometimes something just doesn’t sit right with you and you may not be able to name whatever the thing is. The bottom line of all this is to listen to your gut, because it is rarely wrong, not when it is a fear thing. It’s important to pay attention what is fear. That will be – is different than in your gut and in your – the middle of your body, you know some nagging internal thing that tells you that this is not the right situation. Yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I noticed that this one about the draining? Wait, is it draining, or do you feel sad? There’s someone that I won’t get into too many of the details, but I noticed that I stopped telling them about – exciting things happening in my life. It was like, “Oh, man. Because I found that I would tell them exciting things. Called him with like, “Oh, my gosh. This is so exciting. Oh, my God.” Then I would in they call with – It was like, “All right, maybe I need to lessen my interaction with this person.” I stopped calling them when I was happy.
AMY MOORE: That’s a sign of a toxic relationship.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah that’s right.
AMY MOORE: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I ended up taking a break and it ended up being a really good thing. Then I could have a pause and have the power of the pause there again and just having –
AMY MOORE: New perspective.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, a new perspective and something like a fresh boundary, I guess, as far as you know what? This isn’t serving me to show up in this happy state when I know it’s not going to continue, or be encouraging.
AMY MOORE: Do you think that for some of these things, is it different than just run-of-the-mill bad relationships?
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. I think the thing to ask is that is this person adding to my life, or is it taking away from my life on the whole?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Then something else is like, what if – okay, this would be really bad, but we have to ask this if we’re going to be having this conversation. What if you’re the toxic one? It’s like, okay so we talked about earlier if you keep running into the situation of these different people being toxic, or these same patterns are showing up. Okay, what if I’m the toxic person in this situation?
What I’ve found with toxic people and how do I know if I’m being the toxic person is am I the common denominator with all of these relationships that are going south? It’s like, oh man, every single person I am talking to is a total d-bag today. It’s like, “Oh, really?” “Or am I the d-bag?”
AMY MOORE: That’s a good filter.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, okay everybody’s horrible today. Well, maybe not. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I need to do a reset here. I guess that wouldn’t be so much toxic as I’m being a bad person today.
AMY MOORE: All right, boundaries. Ooh, good one. We have a little note here about being a good friend doesn’t mean being a doormat. We teach people how to treat us. That’s a good topic. What do you guys think about that one?
ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I wrote it down so I really think it’s –
AMY MOORE: Oh, I bet you’ve got some ideas. Take it away, Erin.
ERIN LINEHAN: No, Anna was going. Go ahead.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I was going to say, I can’t help but think about my wonderful sister-in-law. Actually, she is really, really great at boundaries and she taught us how to treat her. She’s someone who I’m like, this is acceptable with her, this is not acceptable. Not I’m going around being –it makes it sound like I’ve got all these bad habits or something. It’s certain things are okay and certain things are not. She’s someone who had really clear boundaries about what she would and would not accept. I really respect that.
AMY MOORE: That’s awesome.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s really cool. Shout out to Ashley. Yay, Ashley.
AMY MOORE: Maybe she can come and you visit her. Talk to her. Talk to us about her boundaries.
ERIN LINEHAN: This makes me think about why I think a coffee works so well, is because, that we were three healthy people and that we came together, and so that creates a healthy relationship. I think a lot of that was having good boundaries around just about our friendship and what we kept in the circle and all of that. I think that that is we need boundaries. I think people get afraid of them and I think we talked at some point about barriers and boundaries, and so it’s not necessarily having walls up. Boundaries are just you can see over a fence, right? We need boundaries to know where I start and where I’m finished and you start and where you were finished and I start.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: They definitely aid in the safety feeling. Well, and it’s funny, so we were super, super excited about the podcast and we started talking about the podcast a ton during our coffee meetings. I had to send a text to you too and be like, “Can we not talk about the podcast during –”
AMY MOORE: Yeah, that was a good call.
ERIN LINEHAN: That was. I was like, “Oh.”
AMY MOORE: Good boundary, Anna.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can I get a high-five?
ERIN LINEHAN: That’s right. When we set boundaries with people and pulling it back into the toxic friendships and relationships, is that to be aware if people are not respectful of that, of the creep. When we set boundaries and people – if you think about a dog in a kitchen, like if your dog is not allowed in the kitchen and then they’re standing at the edge, or sitting at the end of the kitchen and then you go, let’s stir your pot or whatever and then you come back and you’re like, “Oh, their paws are in here.” Then you go back and do something else, and then all of a sudden, they’re halfway in the kitchen. I think with people, so with dogs, right? It’s easy example, but with people I think it’s important to pay attention to that.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: How would that look like? What would that look like? It’s a people-person version. I love the dog example, but –
ERIN LINEHAN: With people. Right. That was just an easy one. With people, if you don’t want to talk about certain –
AMY MOORE: Well, you can even talk about our coffee, right? The boundary was okay, let’s not talk about the podcast during the coffee. Then it’s like, we could easily get things to creep back in, like scheduling, or – something comes in and then all of a sudden, that here we are, it’s coffee and we’re talking about the podcast.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, like the slippery slope. We’re so excited about the podcast. I was like, “Oh, yeah. Let’s talk about it all the time.”
AMY MOORE: Yes. I think that’s maybe a small example.
ERIN LINEHAN: Right. The next point on here is that so with toxic people is that they won’t stop. We can call attention to the fact that hey, hey we’re doing it again. We’re like, “Oh, shoot.”
AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Redirect.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Then if we wouldn’t stop that, or you set a boundary like I need you to – I don’t even have one off the top my head.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s like, okay, let’s – Well, I mean, let’s not talk about this situation, or this whatever situation, or thing, and then we keep talking about it. Then it’d be like, well. Is that then in toxic zone?
ERIN LINEHAN: Or bad. Well, I mean –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s not black and white.
ERIN LINEHAN: – within the boundaries. Yeah.
AMY MOORE: Or someone giving you advice on some relationship you’re in. You’re like, “No, no, no, no. That’s not your – You don’t need to be giving me advice on that relationship.” Then they keep doing it. That to me is toxic.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: That goes back to the they’re not hearing your no.
AMY MOORE: That too.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: They’re not hearing you.
AMY MOORE: Right, right. Toxicity.
ERIN LINEHAN: That’s that. Eventually, if they – the boundaries of that is that you may need to set up a barrier and kick them to the curb. I know that I’m saying that lightly, but sometimes it’s not super easy, but I think that sometimes we just need to do that.
AMY MOORE: All right, so we’re going to leave you here with a few things. The first is practical tips. How do you get out of toxic or bad relationships?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Decrease interaction and/or step out of it completely.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, and the notes here we have our boundaries, say no and create space from that person.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I actually have had to work on this saying no thing, because I tend to be a people pleaser as my default. I have this PDF that I’ll make available to everyone. It’s how to say no; all these different ways to turn down things and get out of different situations. How to say no. I had to make a cheat sheet for myself and I’ll share that.
ERIN LINEHAN: I think a lot of people struggle with that.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, good for you. That’s a good idea.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, here’s how I can say this.
ERIN LINEHAN: Here’s your anchor. It is like, “Hold on. I got to pull my Google Doc.”
AMY MOORE: You’re going to be your own Dear, Abby.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, dear Anna.
AMY MOORE: Dear, Anna. Yeah, just like Dear, Abby affected you that we learned about in our first episode. Pretty soon, people are going to be like, “Dear, Anna.”
ERIN LINEHAN: How do I say no?
AMY MOORE: How do I say no.
ERIN LINEHAN: Let me check my Google Doc.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have a PDF for you.. Here you go.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, exactly.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: All right.
ERIN LINEHAN: Captain resource.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Captain resource. I love resources.
AMY MOORE: Any awareness challenge we want to end with, or anything else we want to say about practical tips?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. The nugget – we have a nugget. We have a dense nugget.
AMY MOORE: A dense nugget again.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Awareness challenge with the ‘I’ statements. Yeah, I think we should do I statements. Erin, do you have an example?
ERIN LINEHAN: I statements. I talk about these a lot here. Okay. I feel statements in very basic communication with people and that when we were having issues, or generally with other people. If I come at you and tell you you did this and you did that and you’re whatever, right? People, no one. If someone comes at me like that, ever going to listen to you.
AMY MOORE: Yeah.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s going to be super productive.
ERIN LINEHAN: It would be great. You should just continue blaming the other person. Okay, so that’s how we’re talking about. Okay, so will you have the podcast, right? Anna and I were at the coffee shop and we were –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: There we go again.
ERIN LINEHAN: Planning this episode. I was talking about I feel statements. Anna has a lot of things in her head that I would like to help with, but sometimes she gets very one-track focus, right?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes. This is true.
ERIN LINEHAN: You agree with this?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes, I do.
ERIN LINEHAN: I was like, “Hey, I want to do more. I want to be able to help more.” Anna was like, “Okay.” Then we come up, so then that was at the beginning of the conversation and then we come to this. Okay, what’s our nugget going to be for the episode? Then I said, well we could talk about I feel statements. Anna was like, “Okay. Well, tell me what those are.” Then I was like, “Well, Anna, I feel helpless when you do not tell me what’s happening in your head and allow me – No, actually it was like, I feel helpless when you do not allow me to help you.”
AMY MOORE: Very succinct.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was able to hear her. I said, “Okay, that’s good to know.”
ERIN LINEHAN: You can do these tasks.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then later on I was like, “Actually, here’s the more tasks you can do.”
ERIN LINEHAN: I was like, “Oh. That was very effective.”
AMY MOORE: I feel you gave me too many tasks.
ERIN LINEHAN: She’s like, “Great. I’ll give them all to you.”
ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, I did not.
ERIN LINEHAN: I know. I’m just getting.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, so I feel statements. In setting boundaries, I think that a good place to know that when your boundaries have been crossed, or you need to set boundaries is to look to see where you have been resentful, or where you feel resentful and you’re continually pissed about something. It could be dishes, or it’s because when someone comes home at night, they don’t get up to greet you, or you always have to take out the trash, or whatever the thing is, it can be something easy or something that you’ve been stewing on for a while. What are the things that are – that one thing, because we don’t need to get into all our resentments, right? One thing –
ANNA NEWELL JONES: This is going to be a really big one.
ERIN LINEHAN: – then set a boundary. If we take the dishes, for example.
AMY MOORE: Okay. Anna and Erin, you guys just had a great example of the I statement that Erin, you figured out how to say to Anna, when you needed her to tell you how you could help, right? That’s a great example of the nugget for the week. It’s like, where in your life could you say an I statement to help someone help you really. I mean, that’s what it’s about, right? You own it and then you need to also directly communicate to ask for what it is that someone might be able to do to help you. Let’s just see how that goes.
ERIN LINEHAN: Good job, Amy.
AMY MOORE: Yeah, let’s see how that goes.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that’s for people. Awesome.
AMY MOORE: All right. I’ll take it on.
ERIN LINEHAN: Yup. Take it on and see how it goes.
AMY MOORE: All right. All right, everybody. We’re coming to the end of the show and got out nugget for the week, so let’s leave with that. Would love to hear your feedback, thoughts, questions, comments, everything.
ERIN LINEHAN: All the things.
AMY MOORE: All the things, on our website, all our social media platforms.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Connect with us.
AMY MOORE: Connect.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, totally. Before you say please. Did you just say peace?
ERIN LINEHAN: No.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: No. I just totally forgot. I was like, “Wait, wait, wait. Don’t say peace yet.” Okay, so you can go to lessalonepodcast.com for the show notes and transcript.
AMY MOORE: Great. Thank you, Anna. Yes.
ERIN LINEHAN: Peace.
AMY MOORE: All right, everybody.
ERIN LINEHAN: Why are we saying peace?
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I don’t know. I could’ve heard you – I swear –
AMY MOORE: For your signing off of the show.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I swear you, the peace.
ERIN LINEHAN: I see everything, so there is that.
AMY MOORE: All right, everybody. Have a great week.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: Peace.
ERIN LINEHAN: Bye.
ANNA NEWELL JONES: I was like, “Why is she saying peace already?”
AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at LessAlonePodcast.com and if you’d like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.
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