EP12: Basically, ALL THE THINGS

EP12: Basically, ALL THE THINGS - Less Alone: A Podcast About Connection


In this episode, we tackle some of the talking points that were shared in last week’s episode as Brian and Kelsey McNeill (of A Light We Share) told us about what it was like to have not one, but two(!), near-death experiences and how those experiences have shaped their lives and changed the course of their future. 

We talk about the importance of connecting, and reconnecting, with those in our lives, how to cultivate the habit of telling people that you appreciate them (and why!) and how social media was utilized as a vital communication channel in a difficult time.

We also chat about how to be a good listener to people who are going through a hard time and how to give them the space to express themselves without necessarily offering advice or telling that that everything will “be okay”. Toxic positivity not allowed! 

We talk about all of this and more so be sure to tune in!

Key Points From This Episode:

  • A quick overview of the main takeaways from our conversation with Brian and Kelsey of A Light We Share.
  • The importance of reconnecting with people and expressing our gratitude of them, to them. 
  • How to use social media as a communication when seeking internal and external support. 
  • What to do when you repeatedly reach out to someone and they don’t respond. 
  • Learning who you can count on when you’re going through a crisis. 
  • The value of direct communication and sincerity.  
  • Navigating the balance between setting boundaries and not hurting someone else’s feelings. 
  • How to send text messages that cut through the nonsense and invite honesty. 
  • Exploring the idea of “toxic positivity” and how to hold space for any emotion a person might have. 
  • Defining moments in live and near-death experiences. 
  • And much more! 

Resources and Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Intro and Outro Music Credit: Night Owl by Broke for Free from the Album Directionless EP (Creative Commons License)

P.S. Be sure to Rate, Review and Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast player!




[0:00:01.5] AMY MOORE: We are three friends exploring connection. From the coffee shop to the podcast studio. I’m Amy.

[0:00:06.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m Anna.

[0:00:06.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m Erin.


[0:00:14.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: All right, we got another big one. You know what I realize after we said that in all of Season 1? I never once said, “That’s what she said.”

[0:00:29.2] ERIN LINEHAN: There, she’s starting off early, people. She’s starting off early.

[0:00:32.5] AMY MOORE: We haven’t even introduced the show.

[0:00:35.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Starting with the day jokes. Coming in hot.

[0:00:39.3] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s coming in hot.

[0:00:42.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I missed you all.

[0:00:43.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:00:44.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Hey, good to see you.

[0:00:45.0] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re here.

[0:00:46.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s been too long. I haven’t seen you for like a whole day.

[0:00:51.0] ERIN LINEHAN: All day.

[0:00:51.4] AMY MOORE: All day.

[0:00:52.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re here.

[0:00:52.6] AMY MOORE: We are here.

[0:00:53.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Good.

[0:00:53.9] AMY MOORE: We are so excited that all of you are here too.

[0:00:57.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes.

[0:00:58.6] AMY MOORE: Listening and helping us kick off this second season.

[0:01:02.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:01:02.7] AMY MOORE: Ooh, that’s a big deal.

[0:01:04.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yup.

[0:01:04.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a big one.

[0:01:06.3] AMY MOORE: Oh, boy.

[0:01:07.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, boy.

[0:01:09.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We say it every episode. It’s a big one.

[0:01:12.5] AMY MOORE: Seriously. Mute.

[0:01:15.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Delete.

[0:01:16.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: My Forester Nov.

[0:01:19.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We can’t hear you. I’m sorry.

[0:01:20.9] AMY MOORE: All right, everybody. We were so lucky to have Brian and Kelsey tell their story in the studio.

[0:01:26.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. It was beautiful.

[0:01:27.9] AMY MOORE: Oh, my gosh. So touching and medically amazing.

[0:01:35.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Amazing.

[0:01:36.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just the fact that he has no long-term brain damage and holy cow, that’s insane.

[0:01:41.0] AMY MOORE: That he came back from death two times.

[0:01:43.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, just the whole thing.

[0:01:45.1] AMY MOORE: The whole thing.

[0:01:45.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, I swear just watching them, I was like, “Ya’ll are so in love. It’s amazing.” Just like you and just up there like, soul connected. It’s just like super beautiful. Yeah. We were laughing, we were crying. It was –

[0:01:59.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It was awesome.

[0:02:00.5] AMY MOORE: A range of emotion.

[0:02:01.2] ERIN LINEHAN: It really was awesome.

[0:02:03.2] AMY MOORE: Today, what we’re going to do on today’s episode is we are going to talk about our takeaways from the Brian and Kelsey interview.

[0:02:11.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:02:12.7] AMY MOORE: This should be good.

[0:02:13.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The connection to life, the connection to death.

[0:02:16.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:02:17.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: All the things.

[0:02:18.0] AMY MOORE: Connection to people. There are a couple –

[0:02:20.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think all the things is always like – Oh, what do you say? All the things. That’s what you say.

[0:02:26.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re going to just –

[0:02:27.5] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s what I do too.

[0:02:28.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Do you?

[0:02:29.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Were you like, “Uh, all the things.”

[0:02:32.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That definitely covers it.

[0:02:34.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Covers all the things.

[0:02:35.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Don’t know what to say, don’t know where it’s going to go. All the things.

[0:02:39.1] ERIN LINEHAN: All the things. Amy, take it away.

[0:02:41.2] AMY MOORE: Thank you. Actually, I’m going to redirect here.

[0:02:44.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a great job.

[0:02:44.3] AMY MOORE: From all the things.

[0:02:47.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, my.

[0:02:48.4] AMY MOORE: I think at the end of the episode – actually, I know. At the end of the episode, I mentioned a few takeaways that I had written down. They were to sign up for a CPR class, to reach out to people who – to deliberately tell people that I’m grateful for them, grateful for their relationship, or just to reach out to someone, who maybe I haven’t for a long time. Gratitude. Then I had written down to read the book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, which I’m sure many people have. I’m a little late to the game on that one.

[0:03:24.2] ERIN LINEHAN: We all are a little late to the –

[0:03:24.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a classic. I read it.

[0:03:27.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Anna of course, she has.

[0:03:27.4] AMY MOORE: Of course.

[0:03:27.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m not late to the game, guys. 

[0:03:29.7] AMY MOORE: No. Never. Never.

[0:03:31.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Trend setter. Trend setter.

[0:03:32.6] AMY MOORE: We learn from you. Then the other thing was to think about defining moments in our own lives and have all of you listeners think about defining moments in your life as well.

[0:03:44.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel there are certain moments, like there almost like a bookmark in a life.

[0:03:50.0] ERIN LINEHAN: A before and after.

[0:03:51.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Pivotal moments that happen, where I can distinctly say this was a defining moment, or this is a change in the chapter of my life. This is the end of something, the beginning of something, a huge defining moment just looking back. Yeah.

[0:04:11.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Thinking about defining moments in our own lives and what they have maybe led us to consequently, or where have we gone, or where have those moments taken us.

[0:04:23.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. You’re saying the realizations.

[0:04:27.1] AMY MOORE: Those were my takeaways. Do you guys want to add anything to that list, as far as just quick snippets of takeaway that maybe we’ll get to? Because we’re going to talk about all of these more in depth in just a minute.

[0:04:40.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You really summed it up really good. I was really struck by their positivity and their love. Like I said, when we were talking with them in the studio, those were the two things that really stood out. I mean, they’ve done a lot of work on it clearly, the situation, the processes, which is super healthy when something traumatic like that happens. Just the fact that they were able to sit in it and cry and laugh and be really –

[0:05:07.9] AMY MOORE: In studio. Yeah.

[0:05:08.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. To be fully present, that was really cool. It just showed me the amount of work that they’ve done, that they continue to talk about it. It was really cool.

[0:05:20.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that is helpful, that how they show up really is their mission of spreading. Sharing the light, because they clearly have a lot of light, especially the combination of the two of them. Then to spread that even amongst us in the studio was super powerful. I think that’s one of the biggest takeaways.

Also, too, the part when Anna asked them about has their perspective on death – or Brian’s perspective on death changed at all and he said, “It was really my perspective about life.”

[0:05:52.3] AMY MOORE: So good.

[0:05:53.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It was so good.

[0:05:53.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Like damn.

[0:05:54.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I was like, “Oh.”

[0:05:55.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Boom. Mic drop.

[0:05:56.4] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s so good.

[0:05:58.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, “Oh, man. That was so good.”

[0:06:01.6] AMY MOORE: Think about that perspective. Many people could turn that entire experience and just think about death and dying and really have this. He totally shifted it to such a positive. I mean, I think the positivity and I just think what they’re doing is – what they’ve been through is heartbreaking, amazing, all those things. Now what they’re doing with their defining moments is also really cool.

[0:06:34.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It also just goes to show you it’s not what happens to us. It’s how we deal with it. I mean, I think that continues to come up. A lot of the people that we have slated for this season, as far as interviews, they have taken something that is not ideal. This is a little teaser. They have taken something that’s not ideal and turn it into something beautiful. The connection that they have –

[0:06:57.4] AMY MOORE: Not everybody, but some.

[0:06:58.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of them. Just the fact that they can take something and turn it into something else. It’s really cool.

[0:07:08.5] AMY MOORE: It is. It really is. Yup. All right, so –

[0:07:13.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, and I realized I had a question for them that I did not ask. I wanted –

[0:07:17.8] AMY MOORE: Wait. That actually brings up a good point, because everybody, Brian and Kelsey are going to be available for a question and answer session. We haven’t decided on exactly the format, but it will be in our LessAlonePodcastGroup.com on Facebook. They’re going to take questions from all of you. Do you want to talk about your question now Anna, or do you want to save that?

[0:07:42.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah.

[0:07:43.4] AMY MOORE: Also, we’ll be giving you much more detail about when that’s happening and where.

[0:07:48.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Just get into the group and you’ll be –

[0:07:50.3] AMY MOORE: Notified.

[0:07:51.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Able to get the notifications dinging you. Yeah, so my question that I was like, “Oh, I should have totally asked them.” I wanted to know what the doctors say, just practically speaking like, what’s his diagnosis now, what are the steps and what does the future look like for him and their – we know alightweshare.org is their business and their mission to spread this light in positivity because of this experience, but I’m wondering physically what the doctors say his diagnosis is, or what things look like going forward.

[0:08:24.1] AMY MOORE: That would be a great question to ask to him during the –

[0:08:26.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Well, I think probably when he was talking about the mountain biking and that he biked –

[0:08:30.7] AMY MOORE: Oh, to trust your body and stuff. Oh, okay.

[0:08:32.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. To do what feels good for you. I think that was part of it. Yeah.

[0:08:36.6] AMY MOORE: Okay. The question and the answer session is going to be awesome. Before we deep-dive into all of our takeaways, we do want to read another listener review. Yay. This is from Good Music Moves. Oh, I like that. The topic, or it starts with saying, “Makes me want to be a –”

[0:09:03.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I cut that off.

[0:09:06.7] AMY MOORE: Wait.

[0:09:07.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It says, “Makes me want to be a b…” I think, it makes me want to be a better something, I bet you.

[0:09:14.3] AMY MOORE: Oh, that makes –

[0:09:16.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Here, Erin. Look. See. Makes me want to be a –

[0:09:19.1] AMY MOORE: Be a better b… Okay. Not capital B. It’s more be. Clearly, it must be better something, right? Yeah. Anyway. Five stars. Thank you so much Good Music Moves. This is what it says: “I love the dynamic of these three women. They each add so much to the discussion and it’s deep and thoughtful, honest and fun and challenging. Quite something to pull off. I love their friendship and the intention of this podcast. 

It truly does inspire me to reach out and connect more with my existing friends and with strangers to be more mindful and kind and open. I’ve definitely pushed myself to start conversations with people I cross paths with out in the world, when normally, I’d tend to keep to myself. These little conversations and connections and kindnesses have enriched my days. Yeah, I love it and I’m so grateful this is out there. Oh, and I usually listen to it when I’m driving my kids around, or cooking, cleaning up in my kitchen.”

[0:10:26.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Thank you.

[0:10:27.4] AMY MOORE: Thank you.

[0:10:27.8] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s so cool.

[0:10:29.4] AMY MOORE: That’s really – thanks for the kind words.

[0:10:30.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I love hearing – personally, I love hearing what you’re doing when you’re listening to the episodes. I just think that’s super fun to hear.

[0:10:37.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah. It’s fun to picture people.

[0:10:39.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, like do, do, do.

[0:10:40.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah, totally.

[0:10:42.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Popping around the kitchen. Popping around the house, in the car.

[0:10:46.7] AMY MOORE: All those things.

[0:10:48.0] ERIN LINEHAN: All those things. Oh, boy.

[0:10:50.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Can you keep the reviews coming? They help so much. We appreciate it so, so much.

[0:10:54.5] AMY MOORE: We love hearing from you. What’s working, what’s not, whatever.

[0:10:59.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. You might be featured in the podcast.

[0:11:02.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. All right, so we’re going into the deeper dive of our takeaways, yeah?

[0:11:11.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah.

[0:11:12.6] AMY MOORE: Erin, you want to kick this off?

[0:11:14.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Sure. Right. The first thing that we want to talk about is to reach out to people. Do you do that? How? How often? To whom? Wat do you think? I do this well, I think.

[0:11:32.0] AMY MOORE: You do, especially with those unicorn and emojis lately. I mean, come on. Those things –

[0:11:39.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Sometimes and sometimes the chicken, because –

[0:11:42.0] AMY MOORE: The chicken.

[0:11:42.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Sometimes the chicken needs to be heard.

[0:11:44.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:11:46.5] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that it’s important to do this and I think for myself, the reason why I have lots of friends from different parts of life, because people often live around the country is because I reach out to them and I spend a ton of time in the car, and so that’s often when I call people. I think it’s super, super important. 

Especially when you can call an old friend from college or whenever and have a conversation, it just feels – just good to reconnect. Because then you were like, remember how much and why you love that person. I like it. Yes. I do that a lot. How about you guys?

[0:12:20.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I feel it’s something I could work on. I’ve definitely been making more of an effort as I’ve gotten older, to really make sure the people in my life know that they’re important to me and that just telling them like, “Hey, what are you doing? Let’s catch up,” and all this stuff and just actually making an effort to connect and not just making it about let’s –I’m just liking your Facebook photos, or you’re liking your Instagram pictures. It’s more of an effort. 

Yeah, I had a call with my niece last night, which one – was like, one of the best calls I’ve ever had with her and it was just really cool to connect with her in that way. Yeah, it really made me realize how much I miss her and it was good. It’s something I can work on though and I’m doing the best I can.

[0:13:12.2] AMY MOORE: Yes, exactly, exactly.

[0:13:13.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I’ve had actually a lot of a lot of people throughout my life have tuned in to the podcast or listened to them and then have reached out after they’ve listened. It was like, it’s so good.

[0:13:23.6] AMY MOORE: It’s so good.

[0:13:24.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Makes me so happy. That’s been pretty cool to see who is listening and then to reconnect in that way.

[0:13:31.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’ve had some different friends reach out too and it’s like, “Oh, cool.”

[0:13:34.9] AMY MOORE: It’s so great. It’s so great.

[0:13:35.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Then it just makes me really realize and value how many good people I have in my life. Yeah.

[0:13:44.1] AMY MOORE: I feel my reach out comes and goes. I think to be honest, there’s always – I struggle sometimes with expectation around that. I think I should be reaching out all the time, or – I mean, as you two know and probably most people, I’m not big on social media. I do my best, but that’s not a regular mode of communication for me.

[0:14:13.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’ve never thought of it as a mode of communication, even though it clearly is. I’ve never thought of it in that way.

[0:14:21.4] AMY MOORE: How do you think of it?

[0:14:22.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is a mode of communication.

[0:14:25.1] AMY MOORE: Marketing tool?

[0:14:26.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like broadcasting. It’s interesting, because I do always – whenever I talk to people about like, “Oh, this is how you should go about your social media.” It’s act like you’re talking to your best friend, or your sister, or talk to the people as a singular person, like a friend.

[0:14:46.7] AMY MOORE: I think that’s actually really interesting, because I think that’s part of why I don’t always feel comfortable with it, because to me, it really is like, “Whoa. I’m about to say this. I am about to broadcast this.” Really, I intended only for people who I feel safe with, or trust. It feels way too vulnerable to me to throw it out there, or broadcast it, I think. I don’t know.

[0:15:15.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, and I also don’t share things that I’m not comfortable with everyone knowing. It’s very carefully selected.

[0:15:23.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Which I guess goes back to my reaching out point. Because I guess, it’s just been – that’s actually been something that’s really interesting for me to look back on some of my defining moments in my own life and see how those moments have either made me reach out more and be really good at it and vulnerable and ask for help and see all these amazing people come help me, or come support me. Then other defining moments I’ve had in my life have really made me retreat and not reach out.

[0:16:00.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What do you think the difference is with how you – if you seek internal, or external support?

[0:16:06.3] ERIN LINEHAN: When you have a unicorn in your inbox frequently. You don’t really have a choice.

[0:16:09.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, man. Seriously. You did not have a choice with that unicorn. I love that thing. It’s so great. That’s a good question. I’m not exactly sure, except that – I’m going to have to think about that one. Yeah.

[0:16:27.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What do you think, therapist?

[0:16:29.5] AMY MOORE: Yes.

[0:16:29.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Erin?

[0:16:31.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Whether or not –

[0:16:32.0] AMY MOORE: Drum roll. Here it comes.

[0:16:35.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Whether or not you can handle reaching out for people where you isolate?

[0:16:39.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Like when there’s a defining moment. Like Amy said, sometimes in some of these defining moments, she finds herself looking for support outside. Other times, she’ll retreat.

[0:16:52.0] AMY MOORE: What’s that all about?

[0:16:52.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it’s just listening to what you need. I think sometimes we need to go inward and not have outside input, or stimulation in whatever form that looks like, because we need to just clear our space and sometimes I think – and then sometimes we need input, because we can feel we’re drowning, or it’s too much, or we need someone to help us share the load.

[0:17:21.0] AMY MOORE: Or that loneliness factor, I think too.

[0:17:22.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Or the loneliness factor. Yeah. I think sometimes when we’re in crisis, I think it’s sometimes helpful to connect with other people and sometimes it’s helpful to connect into yourself.

[0:17:32.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah, that’s super interesting.

[0:17:34.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I don’t think that they’re mutually exclusive, but I think that –

[0:17:37.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It just depends.

[0:17:39.2] ERIN LINEHAN: There’s always the issue that if you’re isolating – I’m thinking and talking at the same time. I mean, if you are need to go inward, that people, I think sometimes are afraid that you’re isolating, and so the person needs to be aware of that, because I don’t think that isolating because you’re depressed and maybe you need support, but don’t know how to ask, I think there’s that. 

Then also too, I think there was to pay attention to when people are constantly reaching out, then sometimes maybe you need to sit with your feelings. I think it’s like, listen to your gut what you need, but also to on both ends of the spectrum, I think it’s do you need to sit with your stuff? Reaching out is avoiding that, because you can put it on to other people, or you don’t actually have to feel it, or are you isolating, or do you need to recharge. Does that make sense?

[0:18:30.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, totally.

[0:18:31.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah.

[0:18:32.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, and I think for myself –

[0:18:33.7] AMY MOORE: It definitely takes self-awareness. I mean, what you’re talking about.

[0:18:37.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wow. I noticed for myself, I tend to retreat inwards when I’m trying to make sure I feel solid in something and that I’m fully grounded in my decision. Also, if I don’t want to have anyone telling me their opinions on it, I’m just like, “I have to get really solid, really clear on my choice and why I’m doing it.” Then when I feel rooted in that, or strong in that, that’s when I’m then ready to talk about it with a wider range of people, because it’s like, I don’t want anyone saying I’m wrong when I might not, or –

[0:19:14.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Give you unsolicited advice.

[0:19:15.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, that is the worst. Just knocking me off of where I’m at in my processing of it, I suppose.

[0:19:23.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that’s why we also need in this relating to this, I think we also need those people in our lives that can just hold space for wherever we are. You can talk, or not talk, but you’re not getting – They can give you input, but they don’t necessarily need to. I think the connection of that, I think helps a lot.

[0:19:42.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. Well and I think about when Kelsey said – she was saying something how her family and Brian’s family really showed up. There was something about at one point she was like, “I’m not quite sure who’s with my kid, which family member,” but she just knew that they were being taken care of. I think in those moments, Brian and Kelsey faced, or maybe some of us have or whatever, there is something about reaching out and wanting help and then people wanting to help you. It’s that reach out can happen and people appreciate –

[0:20:22.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like a symbiotic, is that what that is? The –

[0:20:25.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Yeah. Good job, Anna. Nailed it.

[0:20:33.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Is that what that is?

[0:20:35.0] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah.

[0:20:38.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Also to think though, thinking about myself when I have been in crisis that it’s also important to then be able to – If people are showing up for me when I’m in crisis and then it’s also then important for me to show up when they’re in crisis. To go both ways, because I think that if we don’t do both ways, then that, I think that helps – If you’re receiving, you also have to give at some point. It’s the same and I have learned that over the years.

[0:21:08.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Like balancing the scales.

[0:21:10.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Yeah.

[0:21:11.1] AMY MOORE: Which I think is good – that’s a solid relationship. The definition, right? The give and take.

[0:21:18.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s interesting, because there’s a person that I encounter and I was thinking, “Gosh, I feel so drained when I’m around her. What is that all about? Why do I feel that?” I realized that every time I’m around this person, she asks me for something that I did not offer.”

[0:21:36.1] AMY MOORE: Interesting.

[0:21:37.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, “Wait a minute. No, no, no.” It’s almost a dumping and take. Dump and take.

[0:21:44.9] AMY MOORE: Dump and take.

[0:21:45.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Dump and take.

[0:21:46.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m like, that’s why I do not want to be around this person. Just identifying that and just realizing, I actually don’t have to like everyone. I don’t have to be around everyone. Anyway, pretty powerful.

[0:21:59.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah, very.

[0:22:01.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: To realize that, it’s empowering.

[0:22:03.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Reaching out. Since I’m in the phone – I mean, I’m in the car a lot. I call people.

[0:22:09.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I just imagined the magic school bus.

[0:22:11.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I introduced these two. When you’re talking to people on the phone and that you just want to be done, not because you think anything – 

[0:22:20.8] AMY MOORE: I love this. Yeah.

[0:22:22.3] ERIN LINEHAN: This is a good life hack. My –

[0:22:23.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is. It’s so good.

[0:22:25.2] ERIN LINEHAN: One of my sister’s is that when we are done talking and like, okay, well, it’s – and you want to get off the phone, or you just don’t want to talk anymore, or whatever the thing is, or I can’t handle whatever we’re talking about. I got to go. Then so you say, “Do you have any more here? Are you done here?” Then it’s great. The first time I remember this, that I was driving.

[0:22:45.3] AMY MOORE: Erin is pointing at me right now.

[0:22:46.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes, to Amy. Yes. We were up levelling the friendship around this time. We were talking and I’m like, “Uh, do you have anything else to say?” “No, I don’t have anything else to say.” Then we hung up. Then it was like –

[0:22:58.9] AMY MOORE: Then you were like, “That’s all I got.”

[0:23:00.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s why I called you back, because I’m like, “Oh, she doesn’t know the rule.” I’m not being clear with this.

[0:23:08.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m on here right now.

[0:23:10.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Then I called back and I was like, “Oh, you don’t know that I do that. Are we okay?”

[0:23:13.5] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I was like, “Yes, of course we’re okay. I love that.” Great.

[0:23:17.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It is so great.

[0:23:18.1] AMY MOORE: It’s the best.

[0:23:19.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because it’s like, I end up being on – I realized and I told Erin and Amy this that I found myself on the phone many times and just being like, “I need to get off the phone. This is not working.” I have these phone calls and they’re an hour-long. It’s like, “Uh.” I find myself resenting it.

[0:23:37.0] AMY MOORE: How often does that keep you from reaching out?

[0:23:40.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, yeah. Very good pulling in back in to about we’re – what we started talking.

[0:23:44.9] AMY MOORE: Thanks. No, but that happens to me.

[0:23:47.0] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s true.

[0:23:47.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it does. It’s deterring, because it’s like, “Do I have an hour?” No.

[0:23:52.2] AMY MOORE: Or am I going to try to say goodbye, but then it just doesn’t ever end?

[0:23:56.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, exactly.

[0:23:58.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Those of you that keep the conversation going, maybe it’s something to look at, right?

[0:24:03.1] AMY MOORE: That’s a good tip.

[0:24:03.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a very good tip.

[0:24:04.6] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good tip.

[0:24:05.1] AMY MOORE: Good challenge too.

[0:24:06.7] ERIN LINEHAN: To realize that when someone says that it’s not because they don’t like you, it’s not because they don’t love you, it’s not because they –

[0:24:12.4] AMY MOORE: It’s not personal.

[0:24:13.8] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s nothing. The person –

[0:24:15.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: They just want to get the hell off the phone, bro. Yes.

[0:24:19.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, my God.

[0:24:22.0] AMY MOORE: Exactly. Exactly.

[0:24:22.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s a good one, Anna.

[0:24:23.6] AMY MOORE: I wish everyone could have just seen Anna’s facial expression on that.

[0:24:27.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, God. I love that.

[0:24:30.1] AMY MOORE: I agree. I think the like, “That’s all I got. Bye.” Because you know you’re going to talk to them sooner. It might actually encourage people to talk on the phone more.

[0:24:40.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It totally does. This tip has made me actually like –

[0:24:43.5] ERIN LINEHAN: She picks up the phone for me.

[0:24:45.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah, that’s a big deal.

[0:24:46.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I know this isn’t going to be an hour. I know I don’t have to have dedicated time, because there is someone that I talked on the phone with that is like, are you doing other things? I’m like, “Well, yeah.” It’s my mom. I’m like, “I’m sorry I cannot sit and just talk to you.” I’m multitasking, but apparently it’s very offensive.

[0:25:08.4] AMY MOORE: Oh, yeah. Mine is very obvious. If I’m doing some – I just cannot multitask. Even if I’m on the phone and I’m doing something else, I get called out on it all the time.

[0:25:21.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: These conversations. It sucks.

[0:25:25.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m done.

[0:25:26.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What is happening over there? I’ve never said that to you.

[0:25:30.8] AMY MOORE: No.

[0:25:33.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I have to say that to other people that are normal, that does see.

[0:25:37.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. One more point to this reaching out. What about when you get no response.

[0:25:41.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We got really thorough.

[0:25:42.4] ERIN LINEHAN: We did get really thorough.

[0:25:43.2] AMY MOORE: We did.

[0:25:43.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. What about when you get no response and how do you handle it?

[0:25:47.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Ghosting? Like you reach out or what?

[0:25:49.6] ERIN LINEHAN: No. Like you reach out to someone and then they’re busy, or whatever the thing is. I will say for me, like I think this has a lot to do with people’s attachment style. How people will respond. I don’t need to get into all that. For me, when I reach out to someone repeatedly and they do not get back to me, depending on how close we are, that triggers the shit out of me. It drives me – then I get real anxious.

[0:26:19.6] AMY MOORE: Do you find yourself being like, “Where are they? I need them to get back to me.”

[0:26:23.3] ERIN LINEHAN: No. I bet it’s like, something is wrong with our relationship. I don’t think they got in a car accident, I don’t think. It triggers something in me. I also think – If I know, like I have a friend and I just had a conversation with her and I know that she’s not going to call me back for at least a week. Then we talked about that, so this goes back to the direct communication thing, like we talked about that and I know that. Then I’m not – then it’s fine. People talk about that, then for me when there is no response, but I know that –

[0:26:56.0] AMY MOORE: Like there will be no response.

[0:26:56.5] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re still good, then I think that’s what happens. How about you two?

[0:27:00.9] AMY MOORE: Well, so I have a couple things. I have two things to say about this. I was going through a rough time. I knew somebody who else had gone through something very similar and she was like, “Reach out anytime you need anything.” I did and I would – no response. Reached out on text, no text response.

[0:27:25.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That would set me over the edge.

[0:27:26.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think I left a voicemail and nothing. Then I would see her again and then it was like, “Oh, my gosh. Let me know what you need. I am here,” all of the stuff. Like, “I’ll do this for you. I’ll do that for you.” All these ways that she was going to help me, but just for whatever reason, she couldn’t, didn’t follow through. 

It was like, the first couple times I was like, “Oh, man.” I didn’t really think much about it. I just ended up being like, “Thank God, I have so many other people that I can call on.” Really grateful, because I realized very quickly, I can’t count on this person. That’s a big deal, especially when you’re going through your own crisis, or hard time, or whatever it is that don’t just throw out those help things to the wind, or to these randoms.

She was a little bit of a random. I mean, not entirely though. I learned quick who I can count on, and that’s a big deal. For me, it was like, “Whoa, I got to be aware of it.” I thankfully didn’t take it personally, probably because my level of friendship wasn’t super tight. Then my second thing I was going to bring up is my brother, who I’m super close to. He’s like, I don’t know. I talk to him daily.

There was a couple days where I didn’t talk to him and I just freaked out. I was like, “Is everything okay between us? You need to be direct with me.” Of course, this is over text. I was like, “What’s up? Just tell me right now.” I just went into that panic and that I think is definitely a fallback for me is that I think they’re mad at me, which is clearly my own issues.

[0:29:24.1] ERIN LINEHAN: I feel you on that. I feel you.

[0:29:26.4] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then my brother, he was – he calls me and stops the text. He’s like, “Dude, you are freaking out for no reason.” It was just like, “Oh, thank God.” Then he was able to reassure me. He’s like, “I will tell you. If I ever have an issue, I will tell you. You have to trust that.” It was just like, “Oh, thank God. Thanks for saying that. Thank you.”

[0:29:51.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s very cool to stop the cycle. I think so much misinterpretation happens via text and messages and e-mails and then –

[0:30:00.8] ERIN LINEHAN: The stories that you tell yourself in your head, because of lack of communication.

[0:30:03.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, yeah. It’s freaking hop on the damn phone and clear this shit up.

[0:30:09.5] AMY MOORE: Erin, you are good at that.

[0:30:11.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, you are good at that.

[0:30:12.3] AMY MOORE: Anna, I mean I think the three of us, I think with rupture and repair, learning about that. Thank you, therapist.

[0:30:19.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Life skill.

[0:30:20.6] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think the three of us are really dedicated to direct communication with each other and super, hyper aware.

[0:30:26.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We know we can do that. We all have done a lot of work on ourselves, so we’re like –

[0:30:33.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Hey, but also to –

[0:30:33.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re so damn healthy.

[0:30:36.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, my God.

[0:30:38.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re the healthiest three people on the planet. Did you guys notice?

[0:30:41.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Don’t listen to her.

[0:30:42.7] AMY MOORE: Don’t listen.

[0:30:43.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, wait. Wait, wait. We know.

[0:30:45.6] AMY MOORE: I am shaking my head right now.

[0:30:47.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Smoke out of ass in the studio right now.

[0:30:48.9] AMY MOORE: Oh, God.

[0:30:49.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Smoke out of your ass in the studio as we speak.

[0:30:52.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I always feel funny about giving advice and it’s like, holy shit. Who are we to give advice? I mean, you are a therapist. You can clearly give advice.

[0:31:03.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s not my job.

[0:31:05.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. You’re very good at – you know what I mean.

[0:31:07.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I get it. Yeah.

[0:31:09.7] AMY MOORE: I think we’re not giving advice. I think –

[0:31:11.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re just giving our experience. It’s just so funny, because it’s like, every time I’m like, “We’ve done so much work on ourselves.”

[0:31:18.6] ERIN LINEHAN: That is true.

[0:31:18.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so healthy.

[0:31:19.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It doesn’t make us an authority.

[0:31:21.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like a [inaudible 0:31:21.6].

[0:31:22.7] AMY MOORE: No. You know what it means? It means we’ve discovered how much more work there is to do.

[0:31:28.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Well, it’s a process.

[0:31:30.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Truthful statement.

[0:31:31.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, it’s such a process and it’s like, all we’re doing is saying like, “Hey, this shit worked for us. Maybe this shit can work for you too.” Done.

[0:31:40.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Wait. Hold on. I’m going to go back to that one more thing about the reaching out and let people –

[0:31:43.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, I got a thing for the no.

[0:31:45.4] ERIN LINEHAN: People saying if you haven’t seen someone in a long time and you see them and it’s great to see them, but you’re like, “Hey, we should get coffee, or go to lunch,” but you don’t mean that, then don’t say that. I don’t say that anymore. I’m happy to see the person, but don’t say that, because it’s –

[0:32:02.2] AMY MOORE: It’s empty.

[0:32:02.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then all of a sudden you’re like, “Crap, now we got to freaking get together.”

[0:32:06.3] AMY MOORE: Yeah, but then who wants that?

[0:32:08.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, and you don’t the – if you really want to get together with the person, then say that and then make an effort, but don’t just throw out – that drives me bonkers.

[0:32:17.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Then it’s like a thing on the to-do list.

[0:32:20.3] AMY MOORE: Yes.

[0:32:21.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Okay. This is a great segue into my situation. Let’s talk about me.

[0:32:27.3] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s good. Go ahead.

[0:32:29.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sorry, Erin.

[0:32:30.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, boy.

[0:32:32.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, damn. What am I doing?

[0:32:33.6] ERIN LINEHAN: You’re doing great. Anna forum. It’s Anna forum. She’s going to start blaming it on the heat in about 2 seconds.

[0:32:39.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I will. Oh, is it hot in here?

[0:32:42.6] AMY MOORE: I do that.

[0:32:44.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Get a little lumpy when it gets hot, she says.

[0:32:45.0] AMY MOORE: Bring it back, ladies. Bring it back.

[0:32:47.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: A little lumpy. Something about the heat. Okay, so I have done this recently and I’ve been in the situation, where I’ve been on the receiving or giving end of like, “We should totally get together. Let’s get coffee. Let’s get together. Let’s connect. Let’s do this.” 

I have been in a place recently, so when I made those plans, when I made that offer, right, to these two people in particular, I was in a place where I was willing and wanting to do that. Since I’ve made that statement to them, things have changed and I no longer have the mental and emotional capacity to take that on. I’ve been really struggling with how to honor that boundary that I know I need in myself without hurting their feelings.

Amy just so happens to be very good at, and Erin of course, at wording things. I was like, I need help on crafting this message. It was something to the effect of I really want to hang out with you. I’m not at the place to –

[0:33:50.8] AMY MOORE: I love you.

[0:33:51.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I love you. What did you tell me to say? I didn’t read it yet.

[0:33:54.4] AMY MOORE: I was just thinking –

[0:33:57.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m going to write it down now.

[0:34:01.6] ERIN LINEHAN: What is happening?

[0:34:02.1] AMY MOORE: Front load it with positivity and how much you appreciate that person and how much you really do care for them, but you just – I mean, I think – it’s just be honest and direct, right? In a very loving way.

[0:34:14.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then the other part of it is that I didn’t want to get into the details of what was going on. It was like, how do I have a boundary about this? While –

[0:34:24.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Respecting your own space.

[0:34:24.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Respecting them and –

[0:34:26.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Your own space.

[0:34:27.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. Anyway, Amy helped me with that. I think being on either side of that is really good. Erin’s still being left hanging with the fist pump.

[0:34:35.7] AMY MOORE: Oh, sorry.

[0:34:36.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Fist pump.

[0:34:39.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Okay. Reaching out.

[0:34:40.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We were really thorough on that.

[0:34:41.9] I am really though, I do have to add one more thing. Okay, yeah.

[0:34:45.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: You don’t have to be sorry.

[0:34:45.9] AMY MOORE: Thank you. Thank you, Anna.

[0:34:46.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Sorry, not sorry. Go. Hashtag.

[0:34:48.2] AMY MOORE: I want to say that another takeaway for me with hearing Brian and Kelsey’s story and how reaching – how people reaching out to them, no matter in what capacity, like Brian even said that the messages would come in through Facebook or people he hadn’t heard from in a long time would somehow reach out, or dinners, or childcare, whatever. I just think if not for any other reason, for what the story that they shared, I do feel if we can take anything away from their story, it’s when you know of someone whether they were your friend when you were two, or they’ve been your best friend for 20 years, if they’re in crisis, like whatever you can is appreciated. Whatever way you can reach out is appreciated.

[0:35:40.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I want to modify one more thing. When someone, there’s no response and if someone is in crisis –

[0:35:46.7] AMY MOORE: Good point.

[0:35:47.7] ERIN LINEHAN: You reaching out, it’s just – and they can’t respond or whatever, then to respect that. It’s not that you’re not appreciative. I’d like to modify the fact that when I get – when I don’t get a response, it is very much my own stuff. To trust that people are doing the best that they can and that –

[0:36:08.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s not personal.

[0:36:08.7] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s not personal. I’m just saying that that’s when my own stuff gets triggered. When you’re saying that it is super important to do that and then that’s not where to remember that that’s not where I’m getting my tank filled up, my tank needs to be filled up some more, so that stuff doesn’t bother me as much.

[0:36:24.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a really good point. There’s another thing. Gosh, we have a lot on –

[0:36:27.9] ERIN LINEHAN: We have a lot. This is the only part we’re going –

[0:36:30.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re going to be really thorough on this. Okay, so I’m going through a tricky situation too right now. I’ve gotten texts with a – and I’ve done this in the past, so this is why I feel I can call it out, is that I’ve gotten texts that say, “How are you doing?”

[0:36:47.5] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a big question.

[0:36:48.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s so big. It’s way too big to answer in text, than it’s just like, I’m totally guilty of doing that on the asking side. What was the one tip you had, Erin?

[0:36:58.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, this is so great, because my friend was not great for her crisis, but she was going through a really difficult time and she was reflecting on people reaching out and as we are having this conversation. She was talking about that she got a text from someone in the thick of all the things that says, “What sucks today?” I was like, “That’s genius.”

[0:37:14.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome.

[0:37:16.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s genius. I was like, I don’t know that I’ve sent that text yet, but I’m like, I need to use that at some point.

[0:37:21.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It’s so good, because it narrows it down, because it’s when it’s how are you doing today? That is not a text answer.

[0:37:27.9] AMY MOORE: I think it invites someone to be authentic. It’s like, stop with the crap.

[0:37:33.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The what sucks today?

[0:37:34.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. No one has to pretend that everything is great all the time. Answer the text honestly. I think with sending an e-mail that says what – or a text that says what sucks today, it’s right away, the invitation is open.

[0:37:48.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, totally.

[0:37:48.7] AMY MOORE: It would be real.

[0:37:49.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, “Yeah, I can totally show up as what is happening. If something is sucky and shitty, then I can have that.” Something else I’ve experienced going through this tricky time is this idea of toxic positivity. Have we talked about this on this podcast?

[0:38:05.0] ERIN LINEHAN: No, but I think I’m going to like this because I think – yeah. Go.

[0:38:08.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. It’s this idea of always being – In the work that I do with helping people get out of debt, there’s a lot of encouragement and cheering people on. That’s part of it, because getting out of debt is very hard to do and there’s a lot of isolation and shame, but there’s something that I’ve had to personally work on and made a point of is not throwing positivity at people when they’re at a bad place.

[0:38:35.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Because it shuts down vulnerability in a second.

[0:38:36.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Oh, totally.

[0:38:37.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s like, everything’s okay and shuts the other person down.

[0:38:40.4] AMY MOORE: Yes.

[0:38:41.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s like, wait a minute, this is not okay for this person at this moment. It’s been something that I’ve had to work on. I noticed it’s coming up from the opposite side with people giving it to me. It’s like, “Dude, I just want to fucking be fucking mad right now. Let me be mad.” There’s something to being optimistic, to having an optimistic outlook.

[0:39:01.6] AMY MOORE: I think it’s shutting down the vulnerability –

[0:39:03.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The toxic positivity, that’s the problem. Not giving space for that, like the downside or the –

[0:39:09.7] AMY MOORE: Humanity.

[0:39:10.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, exactly.

[0:39:10.7] AMY MOORE: Being a human. Emotional human.

[0:39:12.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sadness is part of life. Being fucking angry is okay and it’s validating those experiences is so powerful. To be with my people who are getting out of debt to say like, “Dude, this is a fucking, shitty situation.” You are in this. Fucking cry right now, that’s okay. It’s terrible.

[0:39:33.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s okay to have feelings about it. That shit drives me bonkers.

[0:39:37.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then when you’re ready –

[0:39:38.2] AMY MOORE: I bet.

[0:39:38.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: When you’re ready, then let’s – I’ll cheer you on. It’s okay to sit in it too for a fucking minute.

[0:39:46.8] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, absolutely.

[0:39:48.0] AMY MOORE: Amen.

[0:39:48.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Sisters. I was listening to some pod – I might have talked about this before, but Rich Roll was talking about how they refer to people that are –

[0:39:58.6] AMY MOORE: Rich Roll. Do you ever wanted to come and we’ll interview you.

[0:40:01.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Come to our podcast, please.

[0:40:01.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: He is a podcaster.

[0:40:02.8] ERIN LINEHAN: He was talking about –

[0:40:04.0] AMY MOORE: Oh, I know.

[0:40:04.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, I’m telling the audience.

[0:40:06.1] ERIN LINEHAN: The super dupers of the world.

[0:40:07.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Because I didn’t know about him until these two.

[0:40:10.4] ERIN LINEHAN: We love him.

[0:40:11.3] AMY MOORE: Amy and Erin are super fans.

[0:40:12.3] ERIN LINEHAN: He talks about – I think him and his wife, I think he was saying – they talk about the super dupers. Everything is always super-duper. I was like, “Yeah, exactly.”

[0:40:19.3] AMY MOORE: Super-dupers.

[0:40:20.6] ERIN LINEHAN: The super-dupers. I really think that it shuts down vulnerability, because if you’re sharing and then we’re like, “At least you can do this, or at least this happens,” and you’re like, “But I’m in so much pain.”

[0:40:32.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I can’t even go there.

[0:40:34.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. I think that if that is happening, it has way more to do with the person that’s throwing the positivity.

[0:40:42.5] AMY MOORE: Totally.

[0:40:43.4] ERIN LINEHAN: There’s a balance of like, “Hey, have you ever thought about it this way?” When a person is in the midst of emoting real struggle –

[0:40:51.1] AMY MOORE: On your floor, in your closet, bawling your eyes out.

[0:40:54.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Just hold space for that. That’s it. Just hold space for that. I think people have a hard time holding space.

[0:41:00.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What does that mean to hold space. Because I think that something – I understand, because I know you and I know what that means. For maybe someone who’s listening that doesn’t know what that looks like, could you explain that?

[0:41:11.6] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m going to bounce it over to Amy. You sent me an Instagram thing that talked about holding space. Why did you send that to me?

[0:41:19.6] AMY MOORE: Well, because you say it all the time.

[0:41:21.3] ERIN LINEHAN: Right.

[0:41:24.4] AMY MOORE: I also –

[0:41:24.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Boom.

[0:41:25.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m going to bounce it back to you.

[0:41:29.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I mean, I’m a boomerang happening right now.

[0:41:32.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I’m not going to have – thinking to deflect the question. I know, because I don’t want to answer it. I can it. I think it’s just wherever anyone is. Wherever the range of emotions are that I can sit in that with you.

[0:41:46.4] AMY MOORE: I would say though too what that has meant to me and that you’ve been able to do that for me.

[0:41:50.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What does it look like?

[0:41:53.0] ERIN LINEHAN: We’re getting there. Okay.

[0:41:55.5] AMY MOORE: You listen. You don’t jump in to help me solve my problem, even though I didn’t really ask. Or you’re quiet and you’re listening and you’re actively listening. I know that even if I’m just crying, you will quietly listen to me cry. Or you –

[0:42:16.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Listen to you cry.

[0:42:19.0] ERIN LINEHAN: There’s a lot of power in some witnessing your pain. I think that tangibly, holding space is someone that you’re a witness to someone else and you are not inserting yourself in the situation.

[0:42:29.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I think that’s a big deal, like when someone is really hearing you, like really hearing what you’re saying and not turning it all back on them, or an experience that maybe they had right away. Of course, there’s a time and place to do that, but when some – I just feel you two hold space for me when yeah – I mean, even what you’re doing right now, you’re both looking at me, you’re both quiet and I can just talk my head off.

[0:43:03.3] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s a feeling, I think for the person that is talking and you correct me if I’m wrong, but it feels there’s not a – we’re not rushing you through whatever you need to say.

[0:43:11.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yes, that’s it.

[0:43:11.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that that’s –

[0:43:13.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re sitting in it.

[0:43:14.6] AMY MOORE: You’re not thinking right now what you’re going to respond to me saying. You’re not thinking about your response.

[0:43:20.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It almost seems like an energetic thing of like the rushing, I think is a really good way to put it and like the – when you are in a conversation with someone and you’re like, “Oh, my gosh. They’re just popping things off. They just got stuff to say.” It’s like, we’re just being quiet. Honestly, to me holding space is being fucking quiet. I’m just dropping the F bombs today.

[0:43:40.2] AMY MOORE: You are. You are. You’ve got this one.

[0:43:42.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sorry, you all.

[0:43:43.3] ERIN LINEHAN: I passed the baton to you.

[0:43:45.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I got the F baton.

[0:43:46.7] ERIN LINEHAN:  I was going to talk I think the energy just drops in the conversation and it’s just – it feels like something is holding the conversation.

[0:43:54.6] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah. Well, we really thank you Brian and Kelsey for that topic.

[0:43:59.7] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We got really thorough on that one. Gosh, we have a few other things.

[0:44:04.4] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah, we do.

[0:44:05.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah, we’ll see where we are here.

[0:44:06.8] AMY MOORE: We’re going to move on to gratitude and maybe this one will go a little quicker.

[0:44:10.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, I think so.

[0:44:10.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. I think it’s great.

[0:44:12.4] AMY MOORE: We’ve got a few questions under this takeaway. How does gratitude play a role in your life, or in your life, Anna? How do you actively practice gratitude? Does gratitude ever get annoying? Those are our big, broad subjects.

[0:44:32.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it can get totally annoying. It’s that toxic positivity where it’s like –

[0:44:36.0] AMY MOORE: Agreed.

[0:44:37.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I’m just not at a place to do this right now. When I’m in a good place, it is something that has completely shifted having gratitude and being grateful for what I currently have, it completely shifts me always looking at my side, myself for something more. 

I got into the habit, again we talked about when we’re in a good place. When I’m in a good place, that looks like, when I go to sleep at night, I repeat to myself 10 things I’m grateful for. Sometimes it’s the exact same thing every single night. Sometimes I do 12. Sometimes I really struggle to get to 10. It’s just always trying to remind myself of the things that I’m grateful for and that keeps me from looking outside myself for something else. It helps me just frame things as gosh, I really do have a lot to be grateful for, even if this other stuff is sucking ass right now.

[0:45:31.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Right. Time out. You linked annoying in that together, but that doesn’t sound the annoying part of the gratitude. What was the annoying part of it?

[0:45:39.6] AMY MOORE: The toxic positivity.

[0:45:40.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, the toxic like, “Let’s be so grateful.”

[0:45:45.3] ERIN LINEHAN: People throw it around.

[0:45:46.8] AMY MOORE: Oh, it’s a big buzzword.

[0:45:48.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: If you’re not in the place, in the state of mind to be grateful –

[0:45:51.8] AMY MOORE: Don’t pretend like you are.

[0:45:52.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s okay. That’s the annoying part, when it’s in that toxic, great gratitude part. It’s like, when I’m in a good place. When I’m able to say, okay, I’ve had my sad emotions, whatever. I’ve sat in that. I’ve cried. I’m angry, whatever. Now I’m going to bed and I want to end the day thinking about these things I’m grateful for.

[0:46:14.3] AMY MOORE: I feel there is a fine line between fake it till you make it and being fakey.

[0:46:22.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Definitely.

[0:46:22.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Tell me more about that.

[0:46:24.5] AMY MOORE: I feel gratitude, there’s a place to where people can be fakey. This was a big thing for me in high school. It drove me crazy when I thought someone was really fakey. Super nice, but not really nice, or super positive, but not super – I don’t know what, but it was just –

[0:46:46.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Like two-faced?

[0:46:47.8] AMY MOORE: Not necessarily even – I mean, kinda, but just fakey.

[0:46:51.9] ERIN LINEHAN: The sun shining out their ass.

[0:46:53.1] AMY MOORE: Yeah. I mean, religion was playing a part in that. I felt there were so many contradictions in the church.

[0:47:03.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Did you go to a religious high school?

[0:47:05.6] AMY MOORE: No. Presbyterian. I grew up in a religious home. Presbyterian, Lutheran. I just felt in that religion, I felt there is fakiness, because one thing would be said in the church and then behavior outside the church –

[0:47:19.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Like hypocritical.

[0:47:20.2] AMY MOORE: Hypocritical. Yeah. Yeah, hypocritical fakey. Anyway, but I then also think as I’ve gotten older and as I’ve taken risks to do new things, or as I have felt crap and really needed to show up, even though I felt crap, there was value in fake it till I make it.

[0:47:43.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s got a time and place.

[0:47:44.6] AMY MOORE: It does have a time and place. I guess for gratitude specifically, for me, I could see people being grateful all the time and then it’s like – I guess, it is along the lines –

[0:47:56.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I think it goes back to feeling what you need to feel. You can be grateful and also, and as you talked in previous episodes, and feel really hard emotions. You can do both those things at the same time.

[0:48:09.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. That’s true.

[0:48:10.0] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that you can hold space for yourself to have the same experience. You can be struggling with something and be grateful for whatever it is that’s coming into your life, or whatever you’re grateful that you have clean water. Whatever the thing is that I think that it is holding space for both the gratitude and for feeling.

[0:48:30.1] AMY MOORE: Right. Yeah. I do want to tell you something really cool that I’ve started doing in the last, I guess it’s been last month about gratitude. There’s two women that I do this with on a daily basis. We send each other – so we’re on a group text. At least three to five things, sometimes more that we’re grateful for. Specifically, if there are hard things in our life or shit things going on, you find, you take that thing and you say, “I am grateful for blank, this crap thing, because it’s showing me this.”

It’s automatically flipping these really challenging times, or moments, or things that people are doing to me, or to other people, or whatever, and it’s flipping it. It’s like, “Whoa, I’m grateful for that, because it’s teaching me how to use my voice.”

[0:49:28.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Practice.

[0:49:28.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s cool.

[0:49:29.5] AMY MOORE: It’s super powerful.

[0:49:31.8] ERIN LINEHAN: I think that gratitude, that’s when I am at my worst times and I can have grateful, that’s the thing that’s pulled me along, when I can actually in my body feel like what – like similar to what you’re saying, that has done me wonders.

[0:49:49.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. It’s amazing how – I mean, some days I do it right away in the morning. Some days I’m typing my gratitude things at midnight or whatever. There’s something about it. On some of my mornings where it’s just been like, wow, it’s so hard to get out of bed, but I’d have taken my phone and I’ve typed out those gratitude things. It has helped me get out of bed and get on.

[0:50:14.9] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. I also think that there’s room for in this conversation, is that if someone is in a really hard time and it seems impossible to find that, like if they just suddenly lost a child, or suddenly – and they can’t find any gratitude in that situation because it doesn’t make sense, or if there was some random act of violence, or as examples, it’s okay if you do not feel grateful for the situation that was –

[0:50:38.7] AMY MOORE: Absolutely.

[0:50:40.0] ERIN LINEHAN: That is okay.

[0:50:42.1] AMY MOORE: I would say that I started doing this practice a month and a half ago. If anyone had ever told me I needed to do this three months ago, no way.

[0:50:51.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Exactly. Yes.

[0:50:51.7] AMY MOORE: No way.

[0:50:52.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Yes. Yeah.

[0:50:54.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I think to being able to say okay, here’s how this tool, thinking of this gratitude list as a tool and saying this can help me possibly stop a spiral down on negativity rabbit hole, or whatever. Stopping in its tracks, if that’s something that is a pattern.

[0:51:17.0] AMY MOORE: Do you want to talk about what you – how you practice gratitude, Erin?

[0:51:20.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I think the things that I was mentioning, but also for I need to redo this, but I had a timer on my phone that was set for 8:30 every night that just said, “Erin, what are you grateful for?” Then I would just trip that up. I think for me –

[0:51:35.1] AMY MOORE: That’s a great idea.

[0:51:36.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Because then it just reminded me of that.

[0:51:38.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Live tip.

[0:51:39.2] ERIN LINEHAN: Then I think I had it on during a session or something. I had that. This is not ideal. I think also in my hardest times, to find some gratitude in what the hell is going on right now and what is happening. It helps me to pull me out those spinning cycles, or whatever. I think it’s super important. 

I think that to the comment to the ignoring part is that I think when it is in a fakey way, or hypocritical, I think not hypocritical and necessarily what I’m referring to, but I think that it can be when it feels inauthentic, I think for me because I’m super sensitive to other people’s emotions. When you were talking about that, I was thinking about when someone’s saying something, but you can feel something underneath and they’re not acknowledging it, or that they can feel that that’s there, or –

[0:52:27.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s incongruent.

[0:52:28.7] ERIN LINEHAN: That used to make me [inaudible 0:52:33.0].

[0:52:34.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Sorry, Erin. This is awkward. We’re on a podcast. Sorry.

[0:52:39.4] ERIN LINEHAN: I think for me, I’m trying to keep my train of thought. I think for me when I can feel that someone is incongruent that I had to do a lot of work, because it used to make me super like, “Uh, I wish this person would just be upfront and real,” but then realizing that person might not have – might not be ready to talk about that thing. 

Two, might not have any awareness around the fact that they’re feeling these things. Just because I’m in that awareness, doesn’t give me the right to be pissed off about what they’re ready to share. I had to do a ton of work around that. That related to the gratitude part, because in some way, but I do think is important and there’s – as annoying as it can be, I think that there is a ton of research about why it is helpful. I don’t know what the exact thing was is like. Does gratitude bring joy or joy bring gratitude? I think that that’s an important –

[0:53:27.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: The chicken or the egg.

[0:53:28.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Loop to look at. Yeah.

[0:53:30.6] AMY MOORE: Good. I do it with my kids too, sitting around the dinner table; three things you’re grateful for today. That’s what we would do.

[0:53:37.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, that’s good.

[0:53:38.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s really good.

[0:53:39.3] AMY MOORE: Then we also say – well, my brother has this thing of rosebuds and thorns. I just call him what was –

[0:53:46.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: What was good rosebud.

[0:53:47.8] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then what’s a thorn. Maybe something that didn’t feel good – feel so good today, or something that didn’t go well.

[0:53:54.7] ERIN LINEHAN: I think those questions are good to when I worked at camp and I was a backpacking counselor, we sometimes do powwow and how.

[0:54:01.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Powwow and how.

[0:54:03.1] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Like a pow, like a good part. Wow, like what are you awed at. Then how was whatever.

[0:54:09.6] AMY MOORE: Interesting. All those things are good.

[0:54:12.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Love it.

[0:54:13.5] AMY MOORE: Okay. We are moving on to the third takeaway that we really chose to talk about today. We’re not really going to get into signing up for a CPR class, but we do want –

[0:54:25.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Let’s talk about that. That sounds really interesting.

[0:54:27.2] AMY MOORE: Yeah. Then also anything about the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. I guess Anna’s the only one read it, but you all might want to read it too.

[0:54:34.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Probably true.

[0:54:35.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s a classic.

[0:54:36.7] AMY MOORE: Yeah. The final takeaway that we wanted to talk about was thinking about defining moments in our own lives. Really, there were three prompting questions that we came up with. What are defining moments in our own lives? Has anyone ever had a situation with a near-death experience?  Has anyone ever had people show up and bring their light to help you?

[0:55:02.2] ERIN LINEHAN: I have had countless times when people have brought their light to help. I am super grateful when people could provide that. When you’re in really dark spaces and then someone’s like – they are able to hold space for that and shares that with you when you don’t have any – when you don’t feel you have any light left in you. I think this is very powerful. Yeah. I’ve never had a near-death experience.

[0:55:23.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, my closest near-death experience, I found out about after it happened when I was giving birth. Turns out I had pulmonary edema.

[0:55:33.7] AMY MOORE: Whoa.

[0:55:35.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Someone I went to high school with later when I was talking about the birth story and stuff, he’s a surgeon now and he’s like, “Oh, yeah. You’re something. I don’t know. Something in the medical field.” He’s like, “Yeah. You’re lucky that you made it through that.” I was like, “Oh, whoa. I had no idea it was that big of a deal.”

[0:55:52.7] AMY MOORE: What is that?

[0:55:53.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: At the moment. He was just like, that’s – the pulmonary edema.

[0:55:57.8] AMY MOORE: What is that?

[0:55:58.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I think it’s something enlarged or something. I don’t know. I haven’t done a lot of research on it.

[0:56:05.4] ERIN LINEHAN: She’s just happy she made it out alive.

[0:56:07.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. I’m just happy I’m here.

[0:56:10.1] AMY MOORE: That’s good. I am happy you’re here too.

[0:56:12.4] ERIN LINEHAN: Oh, I’m happy. We’re happy about that.

[0:56:14.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: I didn’t dive too deep on that one. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of people, turns out, faking their death on Instagram. Have you heard about this?

[0:56:24.5] AMY MOORE: What?

[0:56:25.3] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Then I want to hear about your near-death experience, if you had one.

[0:56:28.7] AMY MOORE: Wait. Just do you want to drop that tidbit in there about Instagram?

[0:56:34.4] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah. We’re out of practice.

[0:56:37.8] AMY MOORE: We got to have at least one [inaudible 0:56:38.8].

[0:56:41.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: We’re out of practice. This is not normally how it goes, right? Okay, so this guy Ahmed Simran, 15-years-old is one of millions of teenagers who uses Instagram. He doesn’t post pictures on his page every day, yet somehow, he has nearly 3,000 people following him. He has faked his own death. Apparently, this is a thing. It appears that poor Simran is no longer with us, they say. This is from an article on engadget.com. This is a trend that’s happening apparently on Instagram. There are thousands of users telling him to rest in peace, RIP you’ll be missed, RIP bro. You died way too young. I can’t believe you’re gone. The list goes on.

[0:57:28.0] AMY MOORE: That is a crazy prank.

[0:57:29.5] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Yeah, however. Simran, he’s not dead. He just thought it would – let’s see. This says, “He just thought it’d be fun to trick people into thinking he was.” Then, so he just started –

[0:57:40.4] AMY MOORE: I think it’s especially not cool. Not cool of a prank, because of the state of so many people and mental health and just, it’s awful.

[0:57:51.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Apparently, he asked people, “Hey, guys. Can you guys comment RIP in my most recent pic? Because I want my girlfriend to think I’m dead. My family and I recently moved in. She wants to keep that relationship. I really want to move on. It was a toxic one.” Apparently, that’s one way to get out of –

[0:58:06.1] ERIN LINEHAN: We need to talk to him about direct communication. Hello.

[0:58:09.8] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s one way to get out of a toxic communication. Toxic relationships. Faking your own death. Not recommended.

[0:58:17.7] AMY MOORE: I just don’t know if I have any comments about this one.

[0:58:20.7] ERIN LINEHAN: Amy. Your near-death experience. We’re going to pass that one up.

[0:58:25.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No comment.

[0:58:27.0] AMY MOORE: All right. Boy. Please don’t do that prank, people.

[0:58:30.9] ERIN LINEHAN: It’s not cool.

[0:58:31.6] ANNA NEWELL JONES: It’s not a good prank.

[0:58:32.6] AMY MOORE: It’s really not healthy. I mean –

[0:58:34.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: No, no, no, no.

[0:58:36.4] ERIN LINEHAN: If you want to get out of a relationship and you have a hard time doing that –

[0:58:40.0] ANNA NEWELL JONES: That’s a big red flag.

[0:58:41.6] ERIN LINEHAN: A lot of people that can help you with that.

[0:58:45.2] AMY MOORE: I didn’t have a near-death experience, but I was in a relationship in college that yeah, let’s see. Let’s see, when would this have been? My junior year. Okay, so my near-death experience didn’t actually happened to me. It happened to my college boyfriend. He was – let’s see, we were skiing in New Mexico, Taos, New Mexico. I mean, we lived there. We were ski bums. I was finishing up college and he was doing – he was just working on the mountain. He had a horrible, horrible ski accident. 

He did a flip and hit a tree with his chest and he – Taos Ski Patrol came and intubated him on the scene. Then they took him down in a sled and he went from the sled in Taos Ski Valley ambulance down to Taos Hospital and then airlifted to Albuquerque, all in a matter of I don’t know, probably three hours or something.

He had a collapsed lung. I was teaching little kids how to ski at the time. A friend of mine came over and got me right away. I met him in the Ski Valley clinic, medical clinic and he was completely out. Then when he was in transport down to Albuquerque with all the different stops, a friend drove me into Taos and then a friend drove me down to Albuquerque. The medical staff let me see him right before he went into his first surgery. I said his name and his eyes popped open. It was one of the best feelings in the world, because I was so scared, and I was so sad. I was so young. We were both so young.

All of our friends, many of us we’re living there and we – people just started coming to the hospital and droves and we all ate pizza outside while he was in that first surgery. Long story short, I lived in a hotel a couple blocks. It reminded me, it brought up a lot of memories when hearing Brian and Kelsey talk, because I lived in a hotel a couple blocks, or a block away from the hospital. My boyfriend was in the ICU for two months and had a total of eight surgeries and they didn’t know it on his first surgery, but it turned out that he had a super severe, had a neck injury where his head was dislocated from his neck.

It’s amazing. Taos Ski Patrol is amazing. It’s amazing that he survived the accident. It’s amazing that he didn’t have more paralysis than what he ended up with. We talk almost once a year on our birthdays, but he’s just an incredible guy. He made it through this whole experience. I was with him, and so were his parents and his brother. We just rotated shifts in the hospital. I don’t know if it was someone in my family or something, but set up this whole communication hub.

This was before a lot of the today’s apps, to have mass communication. It was just like Kelsey said, where I would just write surgery number four. Here’s what happened, here’s what the doctors say, here’s the outcome, blah, blah, blah. Then people would just – the support and the support from my friends, college friends and childhood friends, my parents’ friends. I mean, the reach out was tremendous.

I remember, I went home to Minnesota and my mom and dad threw a big support party for me. It’s totally my parents, but – I mean, so many people came. It was overwhelming and it was really amazing. Yeah, I’m thrilled to say that he survived and –

[1:03:01.1] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Does he have paralysis today?

[1:03:02.7] AMY MOORE: Nope. Just the vocal cord.

[1:03:03.9] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Wow.

[1:03:04.7] AMY MOORE: His skull was fused with C7, so he does have limited mobility, and I’m sure has some pain, but really I should just ask him. Actually, maybe he’d come on the interview. Anyway, there have been times where that was super traumatic and people showed up and people showed their light and their light spread. I know, I certainly could not have made that through. I think his life was also saved.

[1:03:32.6] ERIN LINEHAN: Thank you for sharing that.

[1:03:34.0] AMY MOORE: Yes. Yeah. Of course. That wraps up our takeaways. We just want to say thank you again to Brian and Kelsey for really sharing their story, but then also providing so much for us to think about. To think about how we share our own light and what we can do in our own lives. They gave a couple – a few practical tips on relationships. I think it was for the three of us, really amazing to watch them in the studio.

We just wanted to reiterate what they said for relationship tips. They said honesty, vulnerability and to understand and accept other people’s communication styles. I think, it was Brian who said, “I know how I communicate, but I can’t listen to, or communicate with Kelsey if I’m not using her communication style. It doesn’t work.” Those were the relationship tips.

Then finally, the final challenge we have for all of you is first, make sure you go to Brian and Kelsey’s website alightweshare.

[1:04:46.7] ERIN LINEHAN: .org.

[1:04:47.2] AMY MOORE: .org.

[1:04:48.4] ERIN LINEHAN: We’ll have that in the show notes.

[1:04:49.7] AMY MOORE: Yup. Then also, we just challenge you all to think about spreading your own light. We’ll put up this really cool graphic that Brian and Kelsey had on their Instagram, that we’re also going to put on ours. Thanks to them. It just shows, if you can show your light to two people, it is a domino effect.

[1:05:10.0] ERIN LINEHAN: Yeah. Yes.

[1:05:11.1] AMY MOORE: That’s all we got.

[1:05:11.9] ERIN LINEHAN: That’s all we got. Thank you.

[1:05:13.6] AMY MOORE: Thanks, everybody. Talk to you soon.

[1:05:16.5] ERIN LINEHAN: Bye-bye.

[1:05:17.2] ANNA NEWELL JONES: Bye.


[1:05:21.8] AMY MOORE: Thanks for listening. You can find more about this episode and a way to connect to the community at lessalonepodcast.com. If you like us, don’t forget to subscribe and be sure to leave a review. It helps other people find us and could be just what they need.


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